Michigan Department of Education Special Meeting for December 11, 2014


>>I HEREBY CALL THE MEETING OF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION TOGETHER. IT’S 1:07, AND MERTZ, IF YOU’D DO A ROLL CALL?>>YES. WE’LL START ON MY LEFT WITH MIKE FLANAGAN. HE’S STATE SUPERINTENDENT, AND CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, AND AS WE GO AROUND THE TABLE, WE HAVE GARY RAY, FROM RAY AND ASSOCIATES, AND TIM QUINN, WHO’S IN PARTNERSHIP WITH RAY AND ASSOCIATES FOR THIS PROJECT. AND THEN HEATHER CALLAHAN, YOU KNOW HER FROM DEPARTMENT OF TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET, WHICH IS THE STATE PROCUREMENT OFFICE. ACROSS THE TABLE, YOU’VE GOT EILEEN WEISER, SHE’S BOARD MEMBER FROM ANN ARBOR. JOHN AUSTIN, BOARD PRESIDENT, HE’S FROM ANN ARBOR. KATHLEEN STRAUSS, SHE’S THE BOARD MEMBER FROM DETROIT. MICHELLE FECTEAU IS THE NASBE NATIONAL DELEGATE, AND SHE’S FROM DETROIT. AND ON THE PHONE, WE’VE GOT CASSANDRA ULBRICH, VICE PRESIDENT, LUPE RAMOS-MONTIGNY– CASSANDRA IS FROM ROCHESTER HILLS. LUPE RAMOS-MONTIGNY IS FROM GRAND RAPIDS. AND DAN VARNER, IF HE’S NOT THERE, WILL BE JOINING ANY MINUTE. HE’S THE BOARD SECRETARY. HE’S FROM DETROIT. DAN, ARE YOU THERE? OKAY, HE’S JUST–>>AND THEN, NEXT OFFICIAL THING WILL JUST BE APPROVAL OF AGENDA AND ORDER PRIORITY. IS THERE A MOTION?>>SO MOVED.>>SUPPORT.>>BY JOHN, SUPPORTED BY EILEEN, I THINK IT WAS? ALL IN FAVOR, AYE?>>AYE.>>ALL OPPOSED, SAME? GREAT, NOW YOU CAN JUST GO FOR IT.>>THANK YOU, AND THANKS EVERYBODY FOR PARTICIPATING. AND THANK YOU GARY RAY AND TIM QUINN FOR BEING HERE, AND HEATHER AND HER COLLEAGE JEFF, FOR HELPING ORCHESTRATE THIS ENGAGEMENT. I WAS TELLING TIM AND GARY BEFORE THE MEETING, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE IS EAGER TO FINE TUNE THE WORK PROGRAM, AND HAVE SOMETHING WE CAN ENTER INTO A CONTRACT WITH. EAGER TO DO THAT. I THINK THAT’S WHAT WE MAINLY NEED TO DISCUSS TODAY. THERE’S SOME POTENTIAL FINE TUNING OF A PROPOSED WORK PROGRAM, BASED ON A FEW PIECES OF WORK THAT WE’VE DONE. PERHAPS WE CAN SKIP OVER AND ADVANCE TO ARTICULATING WHO WE’RE LOOKING FOR. BUT ALSO, SOME PARTICULAR GUIDANCE FROM THE AG’S OFFICE ABOUT HOW WE MARCH THROUGH THIS PROCESS IN A WAY THAT IS RESPECTFUL– APPROPRIATELY SO, OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, AND HOW WE PARTICULARLY ARTICULATE TO CANDIDATES HOW THEY WILL BE TREATED THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS IN TERMS OF THEIR– SOME DESIRE TO STAY CONFIDENTIAL. HOW AND WHEN WE CAN– MOVE THE PROCESS– UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS AS A FULL BOARD WE DO THAT. AND I KNOW, HEATHER– YOU’RE GONNA HELP US MAKE SURE WE GET WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE A CONTRACT AGREEMENT THAT CAN BE ENTERED INTO, RIGHT?>>RIGHT.>>I WAS TELLING HEATHER, SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, IF IT INCLUDES WORK PROGRAM ELEMENTS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE APPROPRIATELY CONFORMING TO OPEN MEETING EXPECTATIONS. SO THAT WILL BE IMPORTANT AS WE FINE TUNE THE WORK PROGRAM. SO I DON’T KNOW WHAT’S MOST PRODUCTIVE, IF I COULD GO THROUGH THE WORK PROGRAM, AND SHARE SOME OF THE AG’S ISSUES AS WELL, OR WE COULD HAVE YOU GUYS JUST SORT OF OPEN UP WITH A GENERAL ARTICULATION OF WHAT YOU’RE PROPOSING TO DO. I’M NOT SURE WHICH IS MOST EFFECTIVE, OR FRUITFUL, OR TIME EFFICIENT.>>WELL, YOU MIGHT WANT TO RUN THROUGH THE WORK PROGRAM RATHER QUICKLY, YOU KNOW.>>DO ALL BOARD MEMBERS HAVE THE PROPOSAL WHICH INCLUDES THE WORK PROGRAM? PAGE FIVE AND SIX. WE DO HAVE COPIES, SO WHY DON’T WE GET THAT IN FRONT OF US. IS THAT CORRECT? THERE’S A SERIES OF ACTIVITIES AND STEPS THAT WERE PROPOSED AS A WORK PROGRAM THAT ARE FIVE AND SIX, WHICH MIGHT BE THE MEAT OF THE FINE TUNING. HOPEFULLY WE’LL GET WHAT WE NEED TO AGREE ON A CONTRACT, AND ONLY IF WE’RE SWAPPING OUT SIGNIFICANT TIME AND MONEY ACTIVITIES THAT HAVE IMPLICATIONS FOR A CONTRACT. I’M NOT WORRIED, NONE OF US ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE OVERALL COST, BUT IF WE DROP OUT SOME ACTIVITIES AND IT COULD AFFECT THE BOTTOM LINE, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SAVE THE TAXPAYERS SOME MONEY. BUT I’M NOT NECESSARILY ASSUMING THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS, BUT WE DO NEED TO AGREE ON THAT TODAY. AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR MOVING BRISKLY THROUGH THIS DISCUSSION, BUT– I APPRECIATE ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS’ INTEREST IN BEING HERE. WE HAVE A TIME CONSTRAINT AT THE BACKSIDE, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET WHAT WE NEED TO DO, DONE. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, BROAD STROKES LOOKING AT THE WORK PROGRAM, SOME ITEMS THAT INCLUDE NUMBER TWO. WHERE WE AS A BOARD HAVE COME TOGETHER AND REALLY WORKED TOGETHER TO ARTICULATE OUR PRIORITIES, GOALS, AND OBJECTIVES, AND DEVELOPING THE CRITERIA AND QUALIFICATIONS. AND NUMBER SEVEN, COLLECTING INPUT FROM OUTSIDE STAKEHOLDERS WAS ALSO PART OF OUR PROCESS, PRE-DATING THIS.>>PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION YOU PUT TOGETHER.>>AND PART OF OUR INPUTTING INTO OUR JOB DESCRIPTION INCLUDED THOSE ACTIVITIES. LET ME– OTHERWISE, THE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES, SUBSTANTIVELY, MAKE SENSE. HOWEVER, LET ME NARRATE, AS BEST I CAN, OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL’S ADVISOR ON THIS, MICHELLE BREA– WE SPENT SOME LONG TIME, EVEN WENT OVER THE WORK PLAN TOGETHER. SHE POINTED OUT A NUMBER OF ISSUES, AND THINGS WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS. AND SHE SHOULD NOT BE HERE, BECAUSE– TO GIVE HER ADVICE AS OUR ATTORNEY, WE’D HAVE TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION IN CONFIDENCE, SO SHE GAVE IT TO ME, AND I’M TRYING TO BRING IT FORWARD TO INFORM THIS DISCUSSION.>>SURE.>>SO THE MAJOR ISSUES ARE– WE DO, CERTAINLY, AND WE CAN, AS WE PUT OUT A SOLICITATION, INVITE CANDIDATES, ASK THEM IF THEY WANT TO REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL. AS THE SEARCH HELPERS GO OUT AND ACTIVELY RECRUIT CANDIDATES– OUR ADVANCED APPLICATIONS– WHICH WE DO ALL WANT TO HAVE A GOOD AGGRESSIVE OUTREACH STRATEGY, WHICH I KNOW IS PART OF WHAT YOU PROPOSED.>>YUP.>>I KNOW AT SOME POINT, AND AT SOME POINT IN YOUR ARTICULATION OF THIS, THERE WOULD BE A TIME WHICH THE SEARCH FIRM WOULD BE BRINGING FORWARD TO THE FULL BOARD– ALL THE CANDIDATES WHO APPLIED. IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. WE THINK THIS PILE ARE EXTREMELY WELL-QUALIFIED, WE THINK THIS PILE IS QUALIFIED, WE THINK THESE ARE NOT MEETING YOUR QUALIFICATIONS. BUT WE HAVE TO VET THOSE. THEY CAN’T SCREEN ON OUR BEHALF. SO WE HAVE TO BRING THOSE INTO A FULL BOARD MEETING. NOW WE CAN TREAT THOSE WHO ARE ASKING TO BE KEPT IN CONFIDENCE. IN CONFIDENCE, IN A FULL BOARD MEETING, WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO DISCUSS CANDIDATES WHO WANT TO BE KEPT IN CONFIDENCE– AND TO EVALUATE THEM AND TALK ABOUT THEM, WE WOULD BRING THEM INTO A PUBLIC DISCUSSION WITH A NUMBER ATTACHED TO THEM. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE MIGHT HAVE HYPOTHETICALLY HAVE FIFTEEN CANDIDATES WHO ARE PUBLIC, FIFTEEN OR TWENTY WHO ARE PRIVATE. WE’RE MAKING SOME ASSESSMENTS, SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. YOU’RE BRINGING ALL OF THAT PILE TO A MEETING, AT WHICH WE THEN ARE WINNOWING THE FIELD IN SOME WAY. WE HAVE TO TREAT THE PUBLIC CANDIDATES IN PUBLIC. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THEM IN PUBLIC. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE PRIVATE CANDIDATES IN PRIVATE. BUT THEN IN PUBLIC, WE HAVE TO SAY WE WANT TO ADVANCE TO A SORT OF– MORE SERIOUS CONSIDERATION. SEMI-FINALIST OR FINALIST POOL, NUMBERS FOUR, NINE, AND SEVENTEEN. WE’RE IN CONFIDENCE THAT NUMBERS EIGHT, TEN, FIVE, OR EIGHT THAT ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PUBLIC. I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT INCLUDE– IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. WE WOULD THEN, AFTER THAT PROCESS, BE ABLE TO APPROPRIATELY GO TO THE CANDIDATES THAT WANT TO BE KEPT IN CONFIDENCE AND SAY– OR YOU COULD SAY ON OUR BEHALF– YOU’RE NOW UNDER EITHER SOME SORT OF EITHER SEMI-FINALIST OR SERIOUS OR FINALIST CONSIDERATION– ARE YOU STILL INTERESTED IN PURSUING THIS? AND IF THEY ARE, THEN THEY WOULD GO PUBLIC. WHAT IT DOES IS I THINK IT MAKES IT– IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DO THE SEARCH FOR THEM TO INTERVIEW CANDIDATES IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM ON OUR BEHALF. SO THIS SEMI-FINALIST SCREENING BY VIDEO IS NOT GONNA BE PERMISSIBLE, AND ANY INTERVIEWING WHATSOEVER HAS TO BE DONE BY THE FULL BOARD. SO I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS– AND YOU ALL CANNOT EVER VET OR WINNOW THE FIELD ON OUR BEHALF, THOUGH YOU CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE SAME. SO THAT WE CAN ALWAYS RESERVE THE RIGHT– LET’S SAY WE HAVE THIRTY CANDIDATES. YOU’RE SAYING FIFTEEN ARE TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT PILE AND SAY, NO, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY UNCLE IS QUALIFIED. [LAUGHING] SO WE HAVE TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT, AND TO DO IT IN PUBLIC. I THINK THOSE ARE THE MAJOR THINGS. THERE WERE ALSO A FEW MINOR POINTS ON SOME OF THE PARTICULAR WORK PROGRAM ELEMENTS. HOW WE ARTICULATE A PROCESS AND A TIMELINE FOR IT, AND HOW WE WINNOW THE FIELD, WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS, AND DO THAT DANCE IN THE APPROPRIATE WAY, HAS SOME IMPLICATIONS FOR THE WORK PROGRAM.>>WELL, WHAT WE’LL HAVE TO DO IS MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS, AND WE CAN MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS. IT WOULDN’T BE THE FIRST TIME THAT I’VE HAD TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS, HAVING DONE A LOT OF STATE COMMISSIONERS, STATE SUPERINTENDENTS– JOBS ALL THE WAY FROM FLORIDA AROUND THE COUNTRY.>>TALK A LITTLE LOUDER. I DON’T THINK THE PEOPLE ON THE PHONE CAN HEAR YOU.>>WHAT’S THAT?>>SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE PHONE.>>OH, OKAY. WELL I DIDN’T WANT THEM TO HEAR ME, SO– [LAUGHING] NO, WHAT WE CAN DO, IS WE CAN MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS IN OUR AGREEMENT. WE’LL CERTAINLY WORK WITH YOUR LEGAL STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CORRECT WORDING IS THERE, AND THAT WE UNDERSTAND HOW WE NEED TO OPERATE. WE CERTAINLY CAN DO THAT. ONE OF THINGS THAT WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IS YOUR TIMELINE. NOW, I’VE PREPARED SOME TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION THAT I THINK WE CAN GET THROUGH WITHIN OUR TIME LIMIT. THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, I THINK, FROM OUR STANDPOINT, TO GET THIS THING MOVING. ‘CAUSE THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, IS GET THINGS MOVING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THE WORD IS OUT THERE ALREADY, SOMEWHAT, THAT WE DO HAVE THE POSITION, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO TELL ANYBODY UNTIL THIS MEETING. SO, WOULD IT BE ALL RIGHT IF I JUST KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THESE TOPICS?>>SURE.>>I DON’T WANNA–>>WE ALL ARE INTERESTED IN GETTING THE WORK PLAN ARTICULATED IN THE APPROPRIATE WAY, SO THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY– OR, THE STATE HAS THE ABILITY TO AGREE TO A CONTRACT. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE GETTING THAT IN FRONT OF US. AND THEN ANTICIPATE OR FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP THAT WE NEED TO TAKE TOGETHER, ASSUMING WE GET THAT CONTRACT IN PLACE. SORRY.>>I HAVE A FEW MORE THAT YOU CAN GIVE TO SOMEONE. YEAH. THAT WAS THE FIRST QUESTION ABOUT THE SEARCH PROCESS. WE’VE KINDA TALKED A LITTLE ABOUT IT, HOW IT’S GOING TO WORK. OPEN, PRIVATE, OR A COMBINATION. SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT IT’S A LITTLE BIT OF A COMBINATION THAT WE’D HAVE TO WORK THROUGH. SO, THAT PART OF IT’S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO US, BECAUSE IF WE’RE TALKING TO CAN, IT’S– THEY’RE GONNA WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE CONFIDENTIALITY AND HOW THE PROCESS WORKS.>>AND YOU SHOULD EXPECT, JOHN, THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE GONNA REQUEST CONFIDENTIALITY. UNLESS THEY’RE PUBLICLY CAMPAIGNING.>>WE HAVE A FEW CAMPAIGNERS.>>I UNDERSTAND. I’VE HEARD FROM THEM. [LAUGHING]>>WE ALWAYS HAVE THOSE.>>HOW MANY CAMPAIGN MANAGERS HAVE CALLED?>>PART OF WHAT WE, AT LEAST I– I’VE ENCOURAGED A FEW OF MY COLLEAGUES TO HELP REINFORCE– WE WANT TO ATTRACT A GOOD NUMBER OF REALLY TOP-NOTCH PEOPLE, WHO FIT THE TERMS OF WHAT WE’RE ASKING FOR. AND IF YOU CAMPAIGN, OR DON’T CAMPAIGN, IT DOESN’T MATTER. YOU’RE GONNA BE ENCOURAGED AND TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY IF YOU’RE CONFIDENTIAL AS YOU ARE IF YOU WERE CAMPAIGNING, SO–>>LET US TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TIMELINE. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, WE SUBMITTED A TIMELINE. YOU HAVE ONE HERE, AND WE’RE RUNNING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT– MAYBE, ON THE DATES. WE CAN BACK IN THOSE DATES. ARE YOU LOOKING TO HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE CANDIDATES SOMETIME STILL IN MARCH?>>I THINK APRIL IS PROBABLY THE MORE REALISTIC AND APPROPRIATE TARGET. WE’D LIKE TO PICK SOMEBODY IN APRIL, I THINK, AT THIS JUNCTURE.>>OKAY.>>IF WE CAN. [COLLECTIVE CHATTER] THAT DOCUMENT– WAS ALWAYS VIEWED AS A GUIDE. BUT YOU SEE, WE’VE BEEN TRYING OUR BEST TO MEET OUR TARGET.>>YEAH, YOU’RE NOT TOO FAR OFF ON IT. ACTUALLY, TOWARD THE END OF MARCH, OR SOMETHING, I’LL HAVE TO MAYBE TRY TO WORK WITH YOUR CALENDAR, AS FAR AS YOUR MEETINGS AND THAT SORT OF THING. I TRY TO KEEP AS FEW EXTRA MEETINGS AS POSSIBLE. SO WHAT WE COULD DO IS TAKE A LOOK, AND MAYBE PUT TOGETHER A CALENDAR FOR YOU. WOULD THAT BE APPROPRIATE THAT WE COULD DO THAT? AND TRY TO TARGET– SEE, I THINK THERE’S SOMETHING ABOUT THE END OF MARCH. TIM AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS. END OF MARCH OR MAYBE FIRST OF APRIL WOULD BE PROBABLY OKAY, AS FAR AS TRYING TO GET YOU THE BEST POOL OF CANDIDATES. IF WE GO TOO LATE, WE’RE GONNA HAVE SOME FOLKS THAT WILL BOW OUT. BECAUSE OF THE CALENDAR, NOT BECAUSE OF THE JOB. [INDISTINCT PHONE CHATTER]>>I’M SORRY, FOLKS ON THE PHONE, PLEASE– IF YOU WANNA TALK, JUST PLEASE HOLLER, SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE WE GET YOU ON.>>WE’LL PROBABLY DEVELOP A FAIRLY AGGRESSIVE CALENDAR, AND PROBABLY LOOK TOWARD MORE MARCH, AND IT WILL BE IN APRIL. I’M AFRAID IF WE GO TOO FAR MIDDLE OR LATE APRIL NAMING A PERSON, THEN I’M AFRAID WE’LL LOSE SOME PEOPLE IN THE POOL. I WANTED TO REPEAT THAT FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE PHONE.>>I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR, AND YOU MAKE SOME VALID SENSE TO ME. THIS IS LUPE.>>AGREED. THIS IS DAN.>>THANK YOU.>>ME TOO.>>THAT WOULD BE GREAT. IF YOU ALL COULD BACK A WORK PROGRAM BASED ON–>>ON THIS.>>AGAINST THAT TARGET. I MEAN, HOW DO WE MEET IT? WHAT’S THE TIMETABLE FROM HERE ON IN TERMS OF– IT’LL TAKE US X LONG TO KINDA PRODUCE THE ARTICULATION AND THEN THE WINDOW FOR RECRUITING. THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.>>WELL, WE’LL CERTAINLY TRY TO WORK WITH THAT. ALONG WITH THE TERMINOLOGY OR THE CONTRACT AS WE ADJUST. THE KIND OF CONCERNS — I KNOW THAT LOOKING AT THE AGENDA THAT WE HAVE HERE– THIS IS IT, RIGHT HERE. I ALWAYS HAVE MY WHITE COPY, SO MY STAFF UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS IS MY WORKING COPY. EVERYBODY ELSE GETS A COLOR ONE. THE JOB DESCRIPTION, SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND– THE JOB DESCRIPTION THAT YOU’VE PUT TOGETHER– THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE’RE GOING TO OPERATE ON, CURRENTLY, SO THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THE CANDIDATES THIS KIND OF JOB DESCRIPTION THAT’S BEEN ADOPTED, AND IT’S ACTIVE.>>YES, AND I THINK– AGAIN, I’M TRYING TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, BUT EVERYBODY ELSE CHIME IN. THAT SORT OF ARTICULATION OF BOTH THE JOB, AND THE QUALITIES AND EXPERIENCE THAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR, WAS RELATIVELY CAREFULLY AND– I WON’T SAY PAINFULLY, BUT THOUGHTFULLY PUT TOGETHER. SO I THINK THAT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, YOU’RE NOW TRANSLATING THAT ARTICULATION INTO WHATEVER IS THE APPROPRIATE ARTICULATION TO CONDUCT THE SEARCH. RIGHT.>>RIGHT. AND THAT WILL BECOME THE BASIS BY WHICH YOU EVALUATE CANDIDATES.>>CORRECT, RIGHT.>>OKAY.>>AND THEN YOUR HELP IN HOW DO WE USE THAT AS A TOOL TO EXAMINE THE CRITERIA OF THE CANDIDATES.>>WE’LL USE THAT TO SCREEN AND VET THE CANDIDATES, OR AT LEAST AS WE RECRUIT CANDIDATES, TOO. WE’LL BE ABLE TO UTILIZE AND SAY THIS IS THE RULES, CHARACTERISTICS, AND TRAITS. THE PROFILE. I KNOW THAT YOU FOLKS– AND YOU CAN TELL ME YES OR NO, OR MAYBE ON THIS PART OF IT. ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO LIKE TO DO IS HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH EACH PERSON ON THE BOARD. THE REASON WHY WE DO THAT IS BECAUSE THAT’S THE FIRST QUESTION WE GET FROM CANDIDATES– TELL ME ABOUT THE BOARD. SO WE AT LEAST LIKE TO BE ABLE TO SAY WE HAD SOME KIND OF A DISCUSSION OR CONVERSATION ABOUT– IF IT’S JUST MORE OR LESS AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS, AND CONFIRMING THE SKILLS AND TRAITS AND EXPERIENCE OF THE JOB. SO EITHER TIM OR I WILL SO THAT.>>THAT WAS ONE OF THE TWO NOTES ON THAT. ONE IS– IF THAT’S TO INFORM THE CRITERIA AND PROFILE, HEY, WE’VE ALREADY DONE THAT. BUT MORE, AND SIGNIFICANTLY, THAT’S ONE OF THE ITEMS IN THE WORK PROGRAM THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE WAS RECOMMENDING NOT HAPPENING. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT THE CONSULTANTS INTERVIEWED BY THE STATE BOARD MEMBERS TO DETERMINE THEIR PRIORITIES, GOALS, ETC– IF THESE DISCUSSIONS ARE TO BE HAD, THEY NEED TO TAKE PLACE IN THE PUBLIC MEETING UNDER OMA.>>REALLY.>>SO, IF I WERE TO JUST BUMP INTO THEM IN A RESTAURANT, WE COULDN’T HAVE ANY– I AGREE.>>HER STRONG GUIDANCE WAS THAT THE CONSULTANT IS ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD. SO THE CONSULTANT CAN’T DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC MEETING THAT THE BOARD COULDN’T DO OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC MEETING.>>ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, YOU’RE SAYING.>>WELL, WE DO–>>WE CAN TALK. I’M JUST– I AM RELAYING GUIDANCE–>>SURE, SURE.>>I’M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIRST POINT. I FEEL THAT WE AS A BOARD DID A LOT OF EFFORT TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER AS WE PUT THE MATERIALS TOGETHER. AND SO, I WOULD BE ANXIOUS ABOUT A CONSULTANT REINTERPRETING ONE-ON-ONE WITH THESE BOARD MEMBERS WHAT WE’RE REALLY LOOKING FOR.>>EVEN IN YOUR PROFILE, I COULD JUST SAY THIS– EVEN IN YOUR PROFILE, THERE IS NUANCE.>>THERE’S WHAT?>>SPEAK UP, JUST A LITTLE BIT.>>SPEAK UP.>>ABSOLUTELY. EVEN IN THE CANDIDATE PROFILE THAT YOU HAVE, AS WELL-ARTICULATED AS IT IS, THERE IS NUANCE THERE. CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO ASK ABOUT– THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROFILE. WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY THIS? AND SINCE WE HAVEN’T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS OF PUTTING THAT PROFILE TOGETHER, WHICH WE WOULD ORDINARILY DO, THEN–>>NO, I THINK THAT’S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU ALL UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES, AND THEY ALL DO. SO I THINK IF WE DO THAT, WE NEED TO DO IT AS A GROUP, AS A PUBLIC MEETING. TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE DID TOGETHER, WHEN WE PUT IT TOGETHER. WE HAD A PUBLIC MEETING, WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT, SO– I RESPECT, IN PARTICULAR, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S RECOMMENDATION. VERY MUCH WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT PROFILE. OKAY. WE COULD EITHER– IF WE WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, WE SHOULD HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AS A GROUP. OR– I JUST DON’T SEE — A LOT OF THIS WAS TO APPROPRIATELY– IF YOUR WORK PROGRAM INCLUDES INDIVIDUAL MEETINGS WITH BOARD MEMBERS, AND THAT COULD BE CONSTRUED– AS HEALTHY AS THAT MIGHT BE, AS SOMEONE OPENING THE DOOR TO SUE US, THAT WE’RE NOT VIOLATING THE PUBLIC MEETINGS DISCUSSION EXPECTATIONS. THAT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE, AND WE WANT TO AVOID THAT. THAT’S THE NATURE OF THE AG’S RECOMMENDATION ON SOME OF THESE ITEMS.>>QUESTION– IF WE HAD– IF THEY SENT US A LIST OF QUESTIONS, AND– SENT THEM TO EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY, AND THEN WE SUBMITTED THE RESPONSES, AND THOSE WOULD BE PUBLIC DOCUMENTS IF ANYBODY CARED TO LOOK THEM UP, COULD THEY– COULD THEY FORWARD QUESTIONS TO US IN WRITING?>>THAT COULD BE A WAY. WE’D HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE NOT ONLY MAKE THEM PUBLIC, BUT THAT WE CALL PEOPLE’S ATTENTION TO THEM.>>RIGHT.>>AND WE COULD ASK THE AG’S FOR THEIR RECOMMENDATION ON THAT TYPE OF PROCESS.>>AND I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST, THAT EVEN THOUGH NO ONE WANTS TO ADD TO THE WORK SCOPE, THAT WE HAVE AN HOUR DISCUSSION WITH YOU, AND GO OVER THE JOB DESCRIPTION WITH YOU. JUST DO IT IN PUBLIC. I DON’T SEE ANY REASON WHY WE SHOULDN’T WANT TO REITERATE THAT. ANY CLARIFICATION WE CAN GIVE YOU AS A GROUP WOULD BE MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN GIVING IT TO YOU AS INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS, I BELIEVE.>>AND THAT MIGHT BE A VERY QUICK NEXT STEP, OR ONE OF THE NEXT STEPS FOR US, IS TO DO THAT. AND THAT COULD BE DONE FOR SOME OF YOU BY PHONE, BUT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO DO A LOT OF PUBLIC THINGS TOGETHER HERE.>>DO WE HAVE A MEETING ON THE 16th?>>NEXT WEEK.>>NEXT WEEK, YEAH.>>TUESDAY.>>WE COULD DO IT AT THAT MEETING. THAT DOESN’T HAVE A VERY LONG AGENDA. DOESN’T LOOK LIKE IT, ANYWAY. [LAUGHING]>>WE’RE HERE, AND WE COULD DO IT WITH YOU BY SKYPE.>>OKAY.>>WE HAVE A MEETING SCHEDULED.>>ONE OF US’LL BE IN CONTACT BETWEEN THIS. I DON’T KNOW IF IT TAKES TWO OF US, BUT– RIGHT NOW I DON’T KNOW MY TRAVEL SCHEDULE RIGHT NOW, THIS TIME OF YEAR. WE’LL WORK THAT OUT. MAYBE WE COULD DO THAT, AND POSSIBLY WHAT I CAN DO IS TRY TO WORK UP A TIMELINE, BACK IN THAT DATE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, IN MARCH– AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, KINDA GO OVER THAT WITH YOU. WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IS TRY AND BRING YOUR CALENDARS. I KNOW CALENDARS ARE A LITTLE FLUID, BUT IF WE CAN KINDA PUT A FEW THINGS OUT THERE AHEAD OF TIME, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. THIS’LL FIT RATHER NICELY IN TWO AND THREE ON THE TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION. SO WHY DON’T WE PLAN ON THE 16TH, HAVING SOME DISCUSSION ON THAT AND CLARIFICATION, AND THEN I’LL PUT TOGETHER A DRAFT. IT WILL NOT BE FINAL. I DON’T LIKE ANYONE TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE SPECIFIC DATE– PUT TOGETHER A DRAFT, AND IF WE HAVE TO MOVE THE DATES AROUND BASED ON YOUR CALENDARS, THEN WE’LL DO THAT. I’LL PUT TOGETHER A DRAFT ON THAT, ALL RIGHT? THAT MAKE SENSE?>>THE OTHER THING THAT WE COULD DO IS AT LEAST GET VACATION DATES. SOME OF US HAVE CHILDREN ON SPRING BREAK THAT’S COMING UP. SO AT LEAST THE BIG STUFF THAT WOULD BE A CONFLICT, WE CAN GET THAT TO MARILYN, EVEN TODAY.>>YEAH, THAT’D BE GREAT. IF SHE CAN SHOOT THOSE, WE’LL TRY TO AVOID THOSE CONFLICTS. AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE THINGS COME UP, PEOPLE HAVE OTHER JOBS AND OTHER OBLIGATIONS. BUT IF WE CAN GET THAT OUT THERE, THAT’S ALWAYS HELPFUL. THAT’LL TAKE US A LONG WAYS DOWN THE ROAD. SO, WE’LL PLAN ON THE 16TH. WHEN’S THAT MEETING START?>>9:30.>>THEY CAN, AS LATE AS THAT MORNING, ADJUST THE AGENDA TIME. SO IF WE HAD A SENSE BEFOREHAND OF WHEN YOU WERE AVAILABLE, WE COULD START WHENEVER YOU WANT.>>9:30, YEAH.>>IT GOES TO, USUALLY, 9 OR 10 AT NIGHT.>>SOMETIMES MIDNIGHT.>>I THINK WE CAN GET IT DONE A LITTLE QUICKER THAN THAT.>>BE SERIOUS WITH ME FOR A MINUTE.>>IT’S USUALLY 4ish. 3 OR 4ish.>>OKAY, GREAT. SO IT COULD BE–>>WE COULD FIT IT IN SOMEWHERE. I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANYTHING– UNLESS THE BOARD REMEMBERS, OR MERTZ– THAT HAD A TIME SPECIFIC. SO WE COULD PROBABLY ADJUST ‘EM AROUND.>>WE’RE SHOOTING FOR 3:30.>>THAT’S RIGHT. 3:30 IS KIND OF AN END TIME FOR THAT MEETING, BECAUSE WE HAVE A RETIRING BOARD MEMBER. WE HAVE A RETIRING BOARD MEMBER! WE DON’T KNOW WHY! MIKE’S LEAVING!>>WE CURRENTLY HAVE A REPORT ON THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT SEARCH SCHEDULED FOR 1:15 TO 2PM.>>1:15 TO 2PM.>>WHICH AS MIKE SAYS, COULD BE ADJUSTED. BUT IT’S CURRENTLY SCHEDULED ON THE AGENDA FOR TUESDAY FROM 1:15 TO 2PM.>>THE BOARD’S BEEN FLUID ON THOSE EXACT TIMES, EVEN IF IT STARTED AT 1:15, IT WOULD GO AS LONG AS THE BOARD WANTED IT TO GO.>>WELL, WHY DON’T YOU GET THOSE DATES TO US, OR THE CONFLICTS YOU MAY HAVE. AND MAYBE CHECK WITH THE FOLKS THAT ARE NOT HERE TODAY. WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU?>>IN TERMS OF TIME ON THE 16th? PROBABLY EARLY AFTERNOON.>>GREAT.>>MERTZ IS GOOD. SHE SOMEHOW KNEW THAT, EVEN BEFORE YOU KNEW IT.>>OKAY, WELL, WE’LL DO THAT. OUR CONTACT PERSON– WE ALWAYS NEED A CONTACT PERSON, SO THAT WE’RE NOT RUNNING THROUGH THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE. WOULD THAT BE MARILYN?>>MARILYN.>>OKAY.>>THE BOARD, AND MYSELF AS PRESIDENT.>>THAT’S WHO I WAS GONNA SAY– THAT’S WHO IT IS NORMALLY.>>BUT THE CONTRACT CONTACT– YOU ALL HAVE TO BE.>>OUR CONTRACTS ARE IN THE DAY-TO-DAY, ONCE WE GET INTO THE SEARCH, WILL BE MARILYN, RIGHT?>>RIGHT.>>OKAY.>>THIS WASN’T PRO BONO? [LAUGHING]>>THAT’S GOOD.>>AN HOURLY RATE? YES IT IS. [LAUGHING]>>ON THIS PROMOTIONAL FLIER, WE CAN DO A LOT OF THAT IN HOUSE. WHAT I WOULD DO– AND I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO SEE THAT, AND MAYBE I CAN START WORKING ON THAT, MAYBE EVEN FOR THE 16th– TO TAKE SOME OF THESE DESIRABLE SKILLS AND TRADES– THE REASON WHY I WANNA PUT SOMETHING ON OUR WEBSITE THAT TELLS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE POSITION, AND IN THE BACK, TALKS ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS AND THINGS THAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR. SO WE CAN HELP CREATE THAT. I’LL WORK WITH MARILYN ON THAT, WHOEVER WE HAVE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH AND WORK THROUGH THAT. I ALWAYS WANT YOU TO SEE IT, BECAUSE IT’S YOUR POSITION, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE OKAY WITH WHAT’S OUT THERE. I’LL HAVE SOME SAMPLES OF HOW WE’RE GONNA DO THAT. I’LL ACTUALLY LEAVE THESE WITH YOU.>>THANK YOU.>>WE DON’T HAVE TO DO IT EXACTLY LIKE THAT, BUT IT GIVES YOU AN IDEA. BECAUSE CANDIDATES ARE GONNA WANT TO SEE HOW THEY SHOULD APPLY, AND WHAT THE PROCEDURE’S GONNA BE, AND SO WE WANT TO LAY ALL THAT OUT THERE. SO WE’LL WORK OFF THE JOB DESCRIPTION ON THAT. THAT’S OKAY. NOW FOR US, ADVERTISING’S GONNA BE SOMETHING– WE’LL WANNA GET INTO CERTAIN PROFESSIONAL PUBLICATIONS. WE’RE GONNA MAKE A LOT OF CONTACTS. AS YOU KNOW, WE’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME, SO WE DO HAVE A LOT OF CONTACTS. WE HAVE OVER 168 ASSOCIATES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT WORK WITH US. SO THAT’LL HELP IN THE RECRUITING EFFORT. OBVIOUSLY, TIM’S VERY FAMILIAR HERE WITH MICHIGAN, AND WE DO HAVE ASSOCIATES IN MICHIGAN AS WELL. SO WE’LL BE ABLE TO CAST THAT NET OUT THERE. BUT WE NEED TO GET IN SOME PUBLICATIONS. I TRY TO USE A LOT OF FREE PUBLICATIONS. OUR WEBSITE IS ONE OF THE MAIN ADVERTISEMENTS WE CAN GET OUT THERE. WE GET THOUSANDS OF HITS ON OUR WEBSITE. AND OBVIOUSLY, THERE’S NO CHARGE FOR THAT. BUT THERE’S CERTAIN PUBLICATIONS WE MAY WANT TO BE IN. I PUT TOGETHER A LIST OF THOSE, AND WE CERTAINLY CAN, DEPENDING ON TIME, TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE. WE CAN CERTAINLY DECIDE ON THE 16th ON THAT. BUT I THOUGHT I’D GIVE YOU A LIST OF THAT.>>AND WERE THOSE ADVERTISEMENTS INCLUDED IN YOUR BUDGET? THE COST OF THOSE?>>I BELIEVE IF YOU LOOK AT–>>THE EXPENSES PART.>>THE EXPENSES PART OF IT.>>DO YOU ALL NEED TO APPROVE THAT TYPE OF EXPENDITURE? OR HOW DOES THAT WORK?>>IDEALLY, YOU’LL HAVE THAT AS PART OF THE CONTRACT.>>SO THEY’RE PAID, AND THEY WILL PAY FOR THE ADVERTISEMENT.>>SO THERE’S NO SURPRISES.>>THAT MAKES SENSE.>>I’LL SAY THAT AGAIN. WE HAVE OUR BASE FEE, AND THEN OUR EXPENSES ARE GONNA BE ON TOP OF THAT– AS LAID OUT IN OUR PROPOSAL. ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A DOLLAR AMOUNT ON THAT, OR– FIRST, WE’D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY PLACES WE’D WANNA ADVERTISE, BECAUSE THAT’S GONNA MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON WHAT IT’S GONNA BE. BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THE BOARD CAN SAY THEY WANT TO ADVERTISE EVERYPLACE. THAT’S NOT GONNA WORK EITHER. SO THAT’S WHY I WANT TO GET A LIST OUT, SO WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT. THAT’S KIND OF IMPORTANT.>>SO HEATHER, BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU WANT A CONTRACT FOR A SUM TOTAL FIGURE.>>YEAH, I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE AS WELL. YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WILL SPEND ON ANY RESULTING CONTRACT UP FRONT?>>RIGHT. AND LET’S JUST SAY, RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE A PROPOSED BUDGET, WHICH IS BASE FEE AND 11-9 IN EXPENSES. IDEALLY, THAT’S– SOME VERSION OF THAT CONTRACT IS WHAT GETS ENTERED INTO, THAT WE AGREED THAT INCLUDES YOUR ADVERTISING IN THESE PUBLICATIONS, WITH AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MUCH THAT WILL COST, RIGHT?>>RIGHT.>>YOU’D LIKE A CONTRACT WITH A SUM TOTAL.>>I WOULD PREFER TO SEE THAT, YES.>>IF I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF PLACES YOU WANT TO ADVERTISE, I CAN PUT THAT NOTE TOGETHER. OBVIOUSLY, THE EXPENSES– WILL BE SEPARATE ON THE CANDIDATES, IF YOU BRING THEM IN, BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY CANDIDATES THEY’RE GOING TO INTERVIEW. WHERE THEY’RE COMING FROM. I WOULDN’T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT FOR YOU. I MIGHT– I COULD GIVE YOU A ROUGH BALLPARK BASED UPON MY EXPERIENCE. I COULD SAY, ASSUMING THAT FIVE CANDIDATES IN MIND THAT WE WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT, I COULD GIVE YOU A ROUGH BALLPARK ON WHAT I THINK THE AIRLINE MIGHT BE.>>AND THAT MIGHT BE A CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE REGARDING– EXPENSES. WHAT YOU ANTICIPATE ON SPENDING, AND– WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE CONTRACT. IF THAT’S BEING PAID FROM THE STATE, VERSUS IF THAT’S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CONTRACTOR.>>USUALLY, THE EXPENSES– I CAN TELL YOU, OTHER FOLKS I’VE WORKED WITH ON THE STATE LEVEL ON POSITIONS LIKE THIS, THE EXPENSES ARE USUALLY DONE SEPARATELY, SO YOU CAN FIGURE OUT– YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY IN YOUR BUDGET PUT IN– I’M JUST USING A NUMBER– $10,000, YOU KNOW, TO BRING CANDIDATES IN. YOU COULD PUT THAT IN, IF IT COMES A LITTLE LOWER, THEN YOU HAVE TO AMEND THAT. YOU’LL HAVE TO DO THAT. I CAN GIVE YOU A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT I THINK OUR EXPENSES COULD BE, AND I’LL PUT THE NUMBER WHERE I THINK THERE’S AT LEAST A LITTLE WIGGLE ROOM IN THERE. BECAUSE ALWAYS, SOMETHING COMES UP. ESTIMATE AND THEN BE WILLING TO LIVE WITHIN IT, IF IT INCLUDES THE STUFF THAT WE ALL WANT, RIGHT?>>YEAH, THAT’S TRUE.>>I MIGHT RECOMMEND THAT WE– CONSIDER CAPPING THE EXPENSES AT A CERTAIN DOLLAR FIGURE AND PUT THAT FIGURE IN THE CONTRACT SO THAT THERE’S WIGGLE ROOM UNDERNEATH THAT CAP. THAT COULD BE WORKED OUT AS WE GO, BUT THAT THERE’S CERTAINTY FOR THE STATES BENEFIT AS TO WHAT THE TOTAL DOLLAR FIGURE HOLDS.>>SO, THAT MEANS THEY WOULD COME UP WITH A HIGH ESTIMATE, NOT NECESSARILY A REALISTIC ESTIMATE FOR UNEXPECTED EXPENDITURES.>>RIGHT, PARTICULARLY IF YOU’RE THINKING ABOUT CANDIDATES’ EXPENSES BECAUSE IF YOU’RE SAYING THAT THAT’S GOING TO BE PART OF IT THEN BECAUSE WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS IS– WHEN YOU BRING FIVE OR SIX CANDIDATES FROM DIFFERENT PLACES AROUND THERE IS SOMEBODY 50 MILES DOWN THE ROAD THAT’S GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT COST, AND PLUS REIMBURSING THESE CANDIDATES IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IF I’M PAYING THEM OUT THROUGH OUR FIRM VERSUS CANDIDATES THAT GET REIMBURSED BY THE STATE. SEE, THERE’S A BIG DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE OTHERWISE I’M CARRYING $15,000 OF CANDIDATES EXPENSES. I WOULD OBVIOUSLY WANT THAT TURNED AROUND PRETTY QUICK IF I’M PAYING IT OUT OF POCKET.>>YOU HAVE A BUDGET HERE OF $11,925 FOR YOUR EXPENSES, $30,000 BASE FEE, AND IT DOES NOT INCLUDE CANDIDATE EXPENSES FOR INTERVIEWS. I THINK WE NEED YOU ALL TO MAKE A GOOD ESTIMATE OF WHAT THAT TOTAL PACKAGE IS INCLUDING THE CANDIDATE EXPENSES.>>OR RANGE OF CANDIDATE EXPENSES.>>WHATEVER THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, MAKE THAT PART OF THE AGREEMENT.>>IF THE BOARD IS LOOKING FOR A TOTAL VALUE, WE CAN GO THAT WAY. IT’S USUALLY NOT THE CASE THAT WE PAY FOR EXPENSES SEPARATELY. WE REQUEST THAT THE VENDER PROVIDE THE PACKAGE DEAL. THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS, BUT THAT’S USUALLY NOT THE CASE.>>I THINK IN FAIRNESS TO THE BOARD, THEY CAN’T BE PSYCHIC ABOUT WHETHER THEY HAD FIVE ALASKAN CANDIDATES. SO, I THINK IF YOU HAD A MAX, WITH MICHELLE PUTTING IT HIGH TO BE SAFE, BUT IT WOULD SEEM THAT IF THE BOARD APPROVES OF A CANDIDATE TO BE INTERVIEWED THEN THAT PERSON WOULD BE EXPECTING EXPENSES. ESPECIALLY IF THEY’RE NATIONAL TYPES. I DON’T THINK I TURNED MY MILEAGE IN FOR THAT INTERVIEW, BY THE WAY. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>SO COULDN’T THERE BE A CAP LIKE JOHN’S REFERRING?>>A RANGE WITH A CAP.>>YEAH, I CAN DO IT A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS. I CAN DO IT BASED ON THE CANDIDATES EXPENSES AND PUT MY BEST GUESS ON THERE. I’LL PROBABLY FIGURE OUT BASED ON THE NUMBER ON CANDIDATES YOU’RE GOING TO INTERVIEW FROM AN EXPERIENCED STANDPOINT. SOME UNEXPECTED THINGS DO COME UP. SO, I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SAYING FROM A BILLING STANDPOINT IS THAT THE CANDIDATES WOULD TURN THEIR EXPENSES INTO US AND THEN WE’LL PAY IT BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE HAVE IN THE BUDGET.>>AND YOU CAN HAVE IT STRUCTURED TOO THAT EXPENSES NEED TO BE VERIFIED. WE CAN WRITE THE LANGUAGE HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT. IF YOU WANT TO PUT A CAP IN THERE BUT EXPENSES HAVE TO BE VERIFIED. IF YOU’D LIKE ME TO TAKE BACK TO THE OFFICE OF WHETHER IT CAN BE DONE SEPARATELY, I CAN DO THAT AS WELL, BUT–>>I DON’T THINK WE WANNA DO IT SEPARATELY IF WE CAN AVOID IT BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE A SEPARATE LINE ITEM. NO. YOU ALL HAVE DEDICATED SOME RESOURCES JUST TO MAKE THIS CONTRACT FOR THIS PROCESS, SO WE SHOULD TRY TO MAKE IT INCLUSIVE AS TO WHAT IT COSTS TO DO IT.>>JUST TO TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CANDIDATES. GARY HAS THIS FIGURE. ORDINARILY, FIRST ROUND INTERVIEWS WOULD BE AROUND FOUR TO SEVEN CANDIDATES, AND SECOND ROUND INTERVIEWS WOULD BE TWO TO THREE CANDIDATES. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?>>HOW MANY CANDIDATES ARE APPLYING?>>WORKS FOR ME.>>WELL, FOR THESE TYPES OF JOBS I’M GOING TO SAY THAT THERE’S PROBABLY GOING TO BE 45 TO 50 CANDIDATES THAT I THINK WOULD APPLY. FROM RECRUITING WE’LL PROBABLY GET A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT, BUT I’M JUST SAYING THAT THAT’S PROBABLY THE GENERAL RANGE, 45-50 CANDIDATES. AS THE CHAIRMAN SAID, WE PROBABLY–>>PRESIDENT, HE’S THE CHAIR.>>PRESIDENT. OKAY, PRESIDENT, HE’S THE CHAIR.>>WE’RE ALL SET ON ANYONE–>>OKAY, PRESIDENT. OKAY, AS JOHN HAS SAID, WE’LL PROBABLY PUT THEM IN DIFFERENT STACKS, BUT TIM’S RIGHT. IT’S PROBABLY GONNA BE ABOUT FIVE CANDIDATES, MAYBE SIX, DEPENDING ON THE FIRST TRIAL, THEN YOU’RE GONNA GET DOWN TO TWO OR THREE. YOU CANNOT HAVE VERY MANY THAT ARE GOING TO GO PUBLIC, MORE THAN TWO OR THREE. I ALWAYS PREFER TO GET IT DOWN TO TWO BECAUSE YOU GET DOWN TO THREE, THEN SOME OF YOUR CANDIDATES SAY, FROM A MATHEMATICAL STANDPOINT, “AM I GOING TO RISK THIS?” AND THAT’S ALWAYS A RISK.>>THE FOUR TO SEVEN FIRST ROUND AREN’T INTERVIEWED IN PUBLIC?>>YEAH, THEY’D HAVE TO BE. THEY’RE INTERVIEWED, BUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY’LL MOVE FORWARD.>>OH, I SEE.>>I THOUGHT THERE WAS A WAY TO PROTECT CONFIDENTIALITY OF CANDIDATES, RIGHT? SO, IF WE COULD–>>WE COULD PROTECT IT UP TO A POINT.>>UP TO THE POINT OF ONE OF THEM BEING ANNOUNCED OF THE FINALIST TO BE INTERVIEWED.>>SO, THE SEMIFINALIST?>>RIGHT, UP TO THE POINT OF WE KNOW THE FIELD IN SOME WAY, AND THEY STILL WANT TO CONTINUE BECAUSE THEY’RE IN A POOL THAT’S SMALLER. WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT THAT ARCHITECTURE LOOKS LIKE.>>YOU COULD INTERVIEW SIX OR SEVEN CANDIDATES AND THEN YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT AS SOMEWHAT CLOSED, AND THEN– YOU CAN’T DO THAT?>>NO. WHEN YOU GO THROUGH A PROCESS WHERE WE WHITTLE THE FIELD TO SEVEN, LET’S SAY.>>WHEN YOU SAY WHITTLE, YOU DON’T MEAN IN AN INTERVIEW?>>NO. WHERE WE’RE BASED ON THE MERITS, THEIR APPLICATION, CHECKING OF REFERENCES, AND THE EXPERIENCE YOU ALL DO, DISCUSSION OF THE FULL BOARD CAN BE BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE FOR THOSE THAT WANNA BE KEPT PRIVATE. AFTER THAT PROCESS WE SAY THERE’S SEVEN, THREE, FOUR CONFIDENTIAL, TWO PUBLIC THAT WE NOW WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH. WE THEN HAVE TO TEST WITH THE PRIVATE ONES. ARE YOU WANTING TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP? YOU ARE NOW ONE OF THE POOL OF SEVEN.>>OKAY, LET ME BACKUP HERE TO MICHELLE AND SEE IF I CAN ANSWER HER QUESTION BEFORE WE GO BACK TO EXPENSES. THOSE STATES WHERE I’VE WORKED UNDER COMPLETE SUNSHINE, AND I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE SUNSHINE LAW, IS THAT IN SOME OF THOSE PLACES, IN ORDER TO GET GOOD QUALITY CANDIDATES, WHEN THEY WHITTLED IT DOWN THEY WHITTLED IT DOWN TO A SMALLER NUMBER AND THAT NUMBER MAY GO FROM FIVE TO SEVEN. SOME OF THOSE CANDIDATES, TO USE THE TERM PRIVATE, IS THAT CANDIDATES WILL GO THROUGH ONE ROUND OF INTERVIEWS. OR YOU COULD HAVE THREE CANDIDATES THAT WOULD GO PUBLIC, AND YOU GET IT DOWN TO ONE AFTER THAT.>>I NEED TO MENTION SOMETHING OUT OF CONTEXT ABOUT THESE POOLS OVER THE YEARS. IF YOU’RE A LOCAL SUP AND YOU’RE GOING FOR ANOTHER LOCAL SUPERINTENDENT JOB, YOU NEED A LOT OF CONFIDENTIALITY. NOT THAT THEY WON’T REQUIRE IT, BUT IT’S SOMETHING ABOUT– A BOARD’S NOT GONNA HOLD IT AGAINST SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY’RE GOING FOR THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT JOB.>>YOU MIGHT CONSIDER A BADGE OF HONOR FOR THEM.>>I WAS GONNA SAY–>>I KNOW THERE ARE SOME, BUT COMPARED TO THE LOCAL WHERE THEY MAY BE READY TO ABANDON US FOR ANOTHER LOCAL DISTRICT. THERE WILL BE SOME OF WHAT YOU’RE SAYING.>>YEAH, IT JUST DEPENDS ON THEIR PARTICULAR SITUATION. SOME OF THEM MIGHT LOOK AT A BADGE OF HONOR THAT THEY ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOB. WE CAN MAYBE MAKE THAT DECISION AS WE GO ALONG DEPENDING ON THE POOL OF CANDIDATES AND THEIR PARTICULAR POSITION THAT YOU’RE IN AT THAT TIME.>>OKAY, TO BE CLEAR, THERE ARE THE SEMIFINALISTS THAT WOULD BE FIVE TO SEVEN. IS THAT WHAT WE’RE SAYING?>>WHATEVER THAT NUMBER’S GOING TO BE.>>SO KEEP IN MIND HOW MANY OF YOU, AS FINAL CANDIDATES, ARE WILLING TO DO A PUBLIC INTERVIEW FOR THIS JOB? THE NUMBER MAY BE DIMINISHED. ONCE YOU’VE GOT THE CANDIDATES, YOU GO THROUGH THE STACKS THAT JOHN REFERRED TO. WE MAY END UP WITH THREE PEOPLE FROM YOUR PREFERRED LISTS THAT ARE WILLING TO GO PUBLIC IN AN INTERVIEW.>>AND WE MAY HAVE FIVE. IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE FOLKS. I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF HOW WE’RE GONNA DO THE SCREENING, AND THAT HELPS ME BUILD A TIMELINE. IT SEEMS LIKE WE’RE GONNA HAVE THE SCREENING, AND THAT’S FINE. WE CAN DO THAT. IT’S JUST THAT DEPENDING ON WHO’S IN THAT POOL, HOW MANY OF THEM ARE GOING TO WANT TO GO FORWARD INTO THE PUBLIC. AND YOU’RE RIGHT. YOU MIGHT HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT’S A BADGE OF HONOR, AND YOU’LL HAVE OTHERS THAT MAY NOT. THE BOARD WILL HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION AT THAT POINT IN TIME. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>WE’LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT.>>RIGHT. OH, YES.>>WE CAN ONLY WIN ONCE, AND WE DO IT AS A WHOLE BOARD. WE CAN KEEP PEOPLE CONFIDENTIAL THROUGH THAT PROCESS, BUT AFTER THAT TO MOVE AHEAD WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE WILLING TO GO PUBLIC.>>THAT’S RIGHT.>>YOU WOULD BRING US A GROUP OF FIVE TO SEVEN–>>THEY’RE BRINGING EVERYBODY. THEY COULD MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THEIR PROFESSIONAL JUDGEMENT. WE THINK THESE SEVEN, TEN ARE OF REALLY SUPER QUALITY, WE THINK THESE 20 ARE NOT, AND THESE FIVE ARE CRAZY. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT ALL OF THEM AND MAKE A DECISION. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>GOING BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION TOO, HOW MANY CANDIDATES? TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THAT’S GONNA BE DEPENDENT UPON THE ANSWER TO QUESTION NUMBER TEN.>>LET’S KEEP MOVING.>>THE APPROVAL OF THE ADVERTISEMENT– I’M GOING TO GIVE YOU A LIST HERE, AND YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LIST AND I’LL ALSO TRY TO BUILD AS MUCH AS I CAN IN THE CONTRACT AS I THINK WE’RE GONNA DO. WHEN WE MEET ON THE 16th I’LL IDENTIFY WHICH ONES WE’RE GONNA BE. SO, THAT WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. SO, THAT’S SIX AND THEN SEVEN. I’M JUST GONNA STAY WITHIN YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION. I DON’T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY SPECIAL THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO ADD INTO YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT A PHD DEGREE. SEVEN AND EIGHT KIND OF GO TOGETHER. MEANING, HOW OPEN DO YOU WANT THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE JOB? I DO HAVE YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION. I’LL CERTAINLY UTILIZE THAT.>>THE JOB DESCRIPTION SPEAKS TO MICHIGAN AND NATIONAL CANDIDATES, AND WE VERY MUCH WANT SOMEONE THAT HAS GOT A TRACK RECORD OF IMPROVING EDUCATION, STRONG EDUCATION/EDUCATOR EXPERIENCE AND CREDENTIALS. THAT SEEMS TO BE PRETTY CLEAR IN THAT DESCRIPTION. SO, THAT WOULD COLOR THE NOTION OF NONTRADITIONAL OR OTHER CANDIDATES.>>WE CAN’T NECESSARILY EXCLUDE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD A BACKGROUND IN A PRIVATE SECTOR, OR MILITARY, OR WHATEVER, IF THEY’VE HAD THE EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT TO GO ALONG WITH IT.>>THAT’S WHAT WE WOULD CALL A HYBRID. OKAY, I’VE JUST CROSSED OUT THE NONTRADITIONAL AND CIRCLED THE HYBRID.>>I LIKE THE IDEA OF REACHING OUT IN THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE OF BLACK AND LATINO ADMINISTRATORS.>>THAT’LL BE ON MY LIST. AND YOU’LL HAVE SOME OTHERS THERE. WHEN WE COME BACK ON THE 16th WE’LL IDENTIFY THOSE THAT WE’VE PUT IN THERE BASED ON OUR TOTAL AMOUNT OF DOLLARS WE PUT ON THE CONTRACT. I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHICH ONES YOU’RE GONNA WANT TO PUT IN THERE.>>NEW YORK TIMES OR ANOTHER NEWSPAPER?>>I’M NOT A BIG NEWSPAPER PERSON. YEAH, I’VE NEVER GOTTEN A SUPERINTENDENT OUT OF A NEWSPAPER.>>THIS SUNDAYS PAPER HAD A BIG AD FOR THE DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF EDUCATION AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY.>>YEAH, THAT’S USUALLY FOR THE EAGLE OF THE SEARCH FIRM THAT’S DOING THAT, OR THE CLIENT.>>GREAT ADVERTISING FOR THE SEARCH FIRM.>>IT WENT STRAIGHT TO THE UNIVERSITY, ACTUALLY.>>WELL, THE ONLY REASON I HAVE THIS IS BECAUSE THIS IS A STATE JOB. USUALLY, IF IT’S A LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT IT GETS A LOT EASIER. I DON’T KNOW WHO WE SEND OUR PAYMENTS TO. DOES THAT GO TO YOU?>>THE INVOICES WOULD BE SENT TO OUR OFFICE OR FINANCIAL SERVICES.>>SO YOU’D HAVE A CONTACT NAME.>>JUST GIVE ME A CONTACT NAME.>>IT’LL BE IN STANDARD TERMS. IT’LL BE PART OF THE STANDARD TERMS. I DON’T HAVE THE NAME RIGHT NOW.>>THAT’S ALL RIGHT.>>IT’S FINANCIAL SERVICES, I DON’T HAVE THEIR ADDRESS, BUT IT MAY BE IN THAT PACKET OF INFORMATION THAT WAS SENT TO YOU.>>IF I HAVE ANY PROBLEM I’LL BE CONTACTING YOU, SO…>>WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS IS ONCE THE CONTRACT IS ISSUED, A PURCHASE ORDER IS THEN ISSUED AS WELL, AND IN THAT PURCHASE ORDER IT HAS THAT LANGUAGE.>>YEAH, SOMETIMES THESE LARGE STATE JOBS IT KIND OF GETS BURIED.>>THESE FOLKS ARE VERY GOOD AND THEY’RE GOOD FOR IT. YOU GOTTA DO THE JOB THOUGH.>>YOU CAN CALL US ANYTIME.>>IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, SO THE STATE OF MICHIGAN THROUGH DTMB IS CONTRACTING TO SUPPORT YOUR SERVICES ON BEHALF OF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION, WHICH IS A SEPARATE CONSTITUTIONAL ENTITY. SO, YOU’RE GETTING PAID BY THE GOOD ADMINISTRATION OF THIS GREAT STATE. TO SUPPORT A GREAT STATE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD SUPERINTENDENT. SO, HELP US PICK ONE.>>OKAY, WE’LL WORK THAT OUT. I WON’T BE CONTACTING MARILYN.>>YOU CAN CONTACT ME AND I CAN CONTACT HER.>>AS LONG AS I’VE GOT A CHAIN OF COMMAND I’M OKAY. ALL RIGHT, THE SALARY AND THIS MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY WANT TO FINALIZE AS WELL ON THE 16th. THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS WE’RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT. IN CERTAIN STATES WE’VE WORKED AT IT’S ALREADY THERE, A PERCENTAGE OF SOMEBODY’S SALARY OUT THERE.>>I COULD SEND THE CURRENT CONTRACT OF MINE TO THE BOARD, AND ALSO DON’T FEEL INHIBITED, AS I’VE SAID TO PRIOR BOARDS, WHICH TOOK ME UP ON IT AND INCREASED THE SALARY, AND DIDN’T WANT ME TO FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. TIMES CHANGE, AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT SUPPLY AND DEMAND POINTS. SO, WE CAN GIVE YOU THAT, BUT I WOULDN’T HESITATE IF YOU FELT THAT YOU NEEDED TO GO BEYOND THAT.>>ARE THERE ANY CONSTRAINTS ON WHAT WE CAN OFFER? IT IS A COMPLICATED DYNAMIC, AS I’M SURE YOU APPRECIATE.>>PRACTICALLY OR POLITICALLY?>>BOTH, WELL, PRACTICALLY. THAT’S ONE QUESTION, BUT ONE OF THE TRADEOFFS IS IN THIS STATE LOCAL SUP’S ARE GETTING A LOT MORE THAN THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT, JUST AS OTHER PEOPLE ARE PAID MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR. SO, WE NEED TO PITCH THE SALARY TO BE COMPETITIVE TO ATTRACT A GOOD PERSON, BUT IT ALSO HAS TO STAY POLITICALLY IN THAT RANGE OF WHAT SENIOR LEADERS IN THE STATE ARE GETTING PAID, WHICH IS THE TRADEOFF, AND AN UNFORTUNATE ONE. THEY PROBABLY DESERVE MORE, SO HOW WE PITCH THIS– ONLY MEDC OR THE HOSPITAL SYSTEMS GET PAID TWICE WHAT THE GOVERNOR DOES.>>COULD YOU COMBINE A COUPLE OF AGENCIES?>>WELL, ONE OF THE WAYS WE LIKE TO ADVERTISE, BECAUSE WE CAN’T USE THE WORD COMPETITIVE BECAUSE PEOPLE CALL US. I DON’T WANT TO MISREPRESENT AS FAR AS TRYING TO RECRUIT SOMEBODY. I DON’T LIKE TO USE THE RANGE FROM THE MINIMUM TO THE MAXIMUM, EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE THE MAXIMUM ANYWAY. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT SOMEBODY THAT FALLS OUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS OUTSIDE THAT RANGE WON’T APPLY AND THAT MIGHT BE YOUR BEST CANDIDATE. I THINK WHAT WE’RE BEST AT DOING IS SAYING THAT THE BASE SALARY IS IN THE RANGE OF, AND PUT A NUMBER THAT WE FEEL IS COMPETITIVE AND THAT YOU CAN LIVE WITH, AND THEN PUT A COMPREHENSIVE BENEFITS PACKAGE OR INSURANCE WITH THAT, BUT THEY’RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT SALARY. I THINK IF WE PUT THE LINE THAT FOLLOWS THE FINAL SALARY WILL BE BASED ON THE CANDIDATE’S EXPERIENCE AND MEETING THE BOARD CRITERIA AND QUALIFICATIONS. THAT WAY GIVES YOU A LITTLE WIGGLE ROOM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT WON’T CHASE AWAY SOMEONE THAT YOU REALLY MAYBE WANT. YOU CAN ADJUST THAT A LITTLE BIT BASED ON– SO YOU’VE GOT TO HAVE ENOUGH BAIT ON THE HOOK THAT’S ATTRACTIVE TO THE CANDIDATE. IT DOESN’T MEAN YOU’RE GONNA PAY THAT. YOU MAY PAY THAT, OR MAYBE A HAIR MORE THAN THAT. I DON’T LIKE A SALARY UP TO, AND NOW YOU’VE GOT A CAP ON IT AND THERE’S NO WIGGLE ROOM. I LIKE TO USE A BASE SALARY AND A RANGE OF, AND THEN PUT THE OTHER LINE THAT SAYS THE SALARY WILL BE NEGOTIATED WITH THE CANDIDATES.>>DID I MENTION THAT THE VARIABLE HERE THAT THE CANDIDATES HAD WILL BE– SEE, I THINK MY SALARY ITSELF– THERE’S PROBABLY, OUT OF 500, PROBABLY 50 MAYBE THAT HAVE BETTER SALARIES. WHAT IT DOESN’T SHOW IS THAT THERE IS PROBABLY ANOTHER 100 THAT WHEN YOU PUT IN THINGS THAT STATE WORKERS DON’T GET: DEFERRED INCOME, PERSONAL CAR FOR PERSONAL USE, TAX SHELTERED ANNUITIES. THAT’S WHERE– I DON’T KNOW HOW TO GET AT THAT.>>TOTAL COMPENSATION.>>TOTAL COMPENSATION– THE TOP ONES IN THE STATE ARE MEDC AND ONE OTHER ONE, BUT I’M HIGHER THAN VIRTUALLY ANY OTHER DIRECTOR. I’VE LOST TRACK OF EXACTLY WHERE THAT IS, BUT I’LL JUST GIVE YOU THE CONTRACT. IT’S COMPETITIVE.>>TENURE HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.>>NO, WE HAVE AGREED THAT I WOULD ONLY DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DID IN THE DEPARTMENT. SO, IF THERE WAS A FREEZE, I TOOK A FREEZE IF IT WAS A ONE PERCENT. SO, PROBABLY IT’S A LITTLE LOWER THAN WHAT THE COST OF LIVING WOULD HAVE BEEN TEN YEARS AGO, JUST BECAUSE OF FREEZES IN THE STATE. I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT AMONGST STATE SUP’S IT’S VERY WELL PAID, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND. I DON’T KNOW IF CCS HAS EVER DONE A FORMAL SERVICE.>>I JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE SOME SALARY HERE. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>THEY MADE THE DECISION THAT THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT WOULD BE PAID THE SAME AMOUNT AS THE STATE PRESIDENT OF THE HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEM.>>THERE YOU GO, THAT MAKES SENSE.>>WHEN IS THAT DEADLINE?>>I THINK WE CAN SAY IT’S AN AVERAGE BECAUSE OF THE MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY.>>YEAH, RIGHT. SERIOUSLY, IT’S MORE THAN COMPETITIVE FOR–>>THE AVERAGE IS AROUND 230 SOME THOUSAND.>>SO, I GUESS OUR ADVICE TO YOU, FROM A RECRUITING STANDPOINT, GIVE US A NUMBER THAT’S AS HIGH AS YOU CAN MAKE IT, PRACTICALLY AND POLITICALLY. THAT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECRUIT A RICHER POOL CANDIDATE.>>AND JOHN, IF I COULD MENTION TO YOUR POINT. WE’RE PRETTY MUCH FIXED WITHIN THE LINE ITEMS WE HAVE NOW WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET UNCLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES, WHICH INCLUDE ME AND SOME OF THE DEPUTIES. I’M NOT SURE HOW, BUT THAT CAN BE MODIFIED BY THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AT SOME POINT. I DON’T THINK IT WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE A SUPPLEMENTAL MID YEAR.>>IF WE WANTED TO COULD WE PITCH IT HIGHER? THE TRADEOFF IS IN RETURN FOR AN IMPORTANT CABINET LEVEL ROLE IN PUBLIC SERVICE. YOU’RE PAID WELL, BUT NOT AS WELL AS YOU WOULD BE IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT.>>WHAT I DID ON THIS, JUST SO YOU GET AN IDEA. IT’S HARD DEFINING SALARIES BECAUSE EVERY STATE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. THEY’LL HAVE THEIR BASE SALARY, AND EVEN IN SOME OF THESE STATE JOBS, BECAUSE THERE’S A HISTORY OF HAVING SOME KIND OF A DEFERRED COMPENSATION, ANNUITIES, OR SPECIAL ALLOWANCES. THESE ARE JUST BASE SALARIES, AND THERE ARE OTHER TAX ANNUITIES AND DEFERRED COMPENSATION. MOST OF THESE JOBS, AND I PUT A LOT OF THESE LOWER ONES IN HERE THAT AREN’T THE SAME ONES YOU HAVE HERE. THERE ARE A FEW MORE OUT THERE THAT ARE PART TIME JOBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I DID NOT INCLUDE THOSE. I THINK YOU’RE GONNA SEE WHERE YOU’RE GONNA BE AT SOMEWHERE IN THE $250 TO $300 THOUSAND RANGE. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ] I’M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT THE MARKET IS OUT THERE. THAT’S JUST THE REALITY OF IT.>>I KNOW I’M BELOW THE AVERAGE THERE, BUT THAT’S HELPFUL. I THINK IN THIS STATE, IF I WERE YOU, I’D DO WHAT WE’VE DONE BEFORE, WHICH IS GO WITH STATE BENEFITS SO THERE’S NO CONFUSION ABOUT THAT. I WOULD SAY THE ONE THAT’S FAIRLY COMMON, BUT MAYBE THERE’S ADDITION IN OTHER STATES, AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER ADDITIONS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. ONE IS THAT YOU HAVE A 401K THAT YOU MATCH, AND THEN DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH YOU PAY, THEY’LL MATCH AGAIN. BUT THERE’S NO TSA’s, THERE’S NO DEFERRED INCOME. THE BOARD SHOULD DO WHAT THEY WANT, BUT I MUST EMPHASIZE THE SALARY AND THEN SAY STATE BENEFITS BECAUSE THEN THERE’S NOT A FEELING THAT– I DON’T KNOW, I’M SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, BUT I WOULDN’T FEEL LIKE I HAVE A DIFFERENT DEAL. MY DENTAL SHOULD BE THE SAME AS ANYONE. I’VE GOT THE SAME TEETH AS ANYONE, WORSE MAYBE. WE NEED TO THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT OUR FLEXIBILITY MIGHT BE. IT’S NOT MUCH BECAUSE WE RECENTLY JUST GAVE UP A SPOT IN ORDER TO TRY AND STAY WITHIN THAT. THAT’S WHY THE REFORM OFFICER ALSO BECAME THE DEPUTY, BECAUSE JOSEPH’S LEAVING. THAT’S ALL KIND OF IN THAT SAME LINE ITEM. HERE’S FOR SURE WHAT YOU CAN DO, IS EVEN THOUGH YOU’RE BELOW THIS, MINIMALLY IT CAN BE WHAT WE HAVE NOW. I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. IF YOU CAN GO HIGHER THAN THAT– I’M NOT SAYING GARY ISN’T RIGHT. PART OF IT IS SALARY. I WOULDN’T WORRY AT ALL ABOUT WHAT I’M MAKING NOW. IF YOU NEED IT TO MAKE THE AVERAGE AND IT’S QUITE A BIT HIGHER, THEN SO BE IT.>>VESTING FOR STATE EMPLOYEE RETIREMENT SYSTEM IS–>>I THINK FIVE YEARS. OH, THERE’S NO VESTING, BUT TO KEEP YOUR MATCH.>>WELL, WITH 401K DO YOU STILL HAVE A VESTING?>>NO, IT’S AUTOMATIC. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>JEREMY NEEDED– THE ONLY REASON I REMEMBER THIS IS JEREMY NEEDED ANOTHER FEW MONTHS TO MAKE THE FIVE YEARS TO GET THE MATCH HELD AND NOT HAVE TO RETURN IT. DO YOU THINK THAT’S STILL ACCURATE?>>YES, THAT’S THE CASE.>>THAT’S THE CASE. SO, BUT MOST PEOPLE– WELL, THAT’S UP TO THE BOARD, OF COURSE, BUT HOPEFULLY THEY WOULD MAKE FIVE YEARS.>>WE COULD SAY STATE BENEFITS, AND THAT’S FINE. THEY ARE GONNA BE LOOKING AT SALARY. MOST OF THE FOLKS APPLYING FOR JOBS LIKE THIS ASSUME THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE CONTROLLED BY THE STATE.>>HOW ABOUT LENGTH OF CONTRACT?>>WELL, IT’S BASICALLY AT WILL, BUT WE MADE A THREE YEAR CONTRACT. IT’S CLEAR THAT THAT COULD BE CHANGED.>>RIGHT, THAT’S PRETTY STANDARD.>>I THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO KNOW. IT CAN BE UNDONE ON THE LANGUAGE.>>THERE IS A LAW THAT SAYS NO MATTER WHAT THE CONTRACT, YOU CAN’T BE PAID MORE THAN SIX MONTHS IF HE’S FIRED.>>THAT’S IN EFFECT A THREE OR FOUR YEAR CONTRACT.>>WILL YOU SHARE THE BALLPARK OF WHERE YOU THINK THIS IS RIGHT NOW? AND THEN WE’LL FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS PITCH POINT IS, OR WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DO MORE.>>I THINK THE ISSUE RELATED WITH THE CONTRACT THOUGH WILL BE AN ISSUE WITH SOME FOLKS. IN EFFECT IT’S A SIX MONTH CONTRACT. YOU CAN CALL IT THREE YEARS. I THINK IT’S HELPFUL, AND I THINK IT’S IN GOOD FAITH, BY THE WAY, I DON’T THINK THE BOARD DOESN’T TAKE THAT IN GOOD FAITH. IT’S JUST THAT STUFF HAPPENS. SOME FOLKS WILL CONSIDER. ONE OF THE THINGS I MENTIONED IS IT’S KIND OF BAD LUCK IN A WAY BECAUSE ONE PERSON MENTIONED TO ME THAT THEY WERE VERY INTERESTED IN THIS JOB, WHO I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EXCELLENT CANDIDATE OF TEN OR SEVEN, BUT HE SAYS, “OH, NO, I’M GOIN’ FOR THE MASA JOB NOW BECAUSE THAT OPENED AT THE JOB I USED TO HAVE.” SO, THAT’S AT THE SAME TIME–>>HE’S RETIRING?>>YEAH.>>OH, I DIDN’T KNOW THAT.>>SO, THERE’LL BE SOME OF THAT, BUT THERE’S STILL GONNA BE LOTS OF GOOD PEOPLE LOOKING FOR THIS JOB.>>DON’T PUT ANY PRESSURE ON US, YOU KNOW? [ LAUGHTER ]>>THE TRADEOFF FOR THIS RETURN IS SHAPING AND IMPROVING EDUCATION. THE EDUCATIONAL AGENDA FOR MICHIGAN IS YOU SACRIFICE A LITTLE BIT TO BE IN THAT ROLE. IT’S A LOT EASIER TO BE AN ASSOCIATION HEAD, BUT YOU DON’T GET MUCH OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. SO, THAT’S PART OF THE CALCULATION FOR ANYBODY. WE WANT SOMEBODY THAT’S SERIOUS ABOUT MAKING A BIG DIFFERENCE AND BE EFFECTIVE IN DOING IT. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>AND YOU’RE RIGHT. I REALLY DO LOOK AT THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY.>>HE WAS MAKING MORE WHERE HE WAS.>>THAT IS THE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT. I DON’T MEAN TO DEMEAN THE PERSON THAT MADE THAT DECISION BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN IMPACT ON SUPERINTENDENT QUALITY TRAINING, SO IT’S NOT LIKE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT.>>SO, WHAT ELSE IS ON YOUR LIST? WE NEED TO TAKE SOME KIND OF ACTION TO ENABLE US TO MOVE FORWARD HERE. LET’S GO BACK OVER. DO WE NEED TO INCLUDE THE SPECIFICS FROM A WORK PROGRAM IN THE CONTRACT? IF WE DO, OR IF IT’S EVEN APPENDED TO THE CONTRACT, THEN I THINK IN THE WORK PROGRAM YOU NEED TO MODIFY BASED ON OUR DISCUSSION. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO APPROVE A MODIFIED WORK PROGRAM AND BUDGET AS A BOARD IF WE’RE GOING TO HELP THIS TO PROCEED. LOOKING AT THE WORK PROGRAM WE NEED TO REWORD NUMBER TWO TO DISCUSS WITH THE STATE BOARD OUR PRIORITIES AND GOALS. I WOULD ELIMINATE NUMBER SEVEN. WE’VE DONE OUR CONSENSUS BUILDING. I WOULD REWORD NUMBER ELEVEN PER AD RECOMMENDATION. IT’S NOT A CANDIDATE SCREENING PROCESS. YOU’LL DEVELOP A MANAGEMENT CANDIDATE RECRUITMENT PROCESS WITH THE NOTE YOU CAN’T APPEAR TO BE SCREENING ON OUR BEHALF. YOU CAN SAY THAT WE WILL BE ASSESSING AND DEVELOPING ASSESSMENTS TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE BOARD BASED ON CANDIDATE QUALIFICATIONS.>>WHICH ITEM THERE?>>ITEM ELEVEN. SO, ELIMINATE ALL UNNECESSARY LANGUAGE. YOU WILL BE GATHERING INFORMATION ABOUT CANDIDATES, ASSESSING AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BOARD ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS, AND THEN SHARING ALL CANDIDATES WITH US. SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. WE CAN’T DO NUMBER 13, SO THAT NEEDS TO COME OUT. WE CAN’T HAVE ANYBODY INTERVIEW EXCEPT FOR US IN PUBLIC. NUMBER 14 THEY HAD SOME CONCERNS WITH, BUT I THAT’S FINE. YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE SOME KIND OF MATERIAL TO HELP US TO RANK CANDIDATES. THEN IF THERE’S ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO PUT IN HERE BASED ON MAPPING OUR TIMELINE– WHAT IS IT? DID ANYTHING THAT WE ELIMINATED REDUCE THE BUDGET? BUT WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT SOME OTHER THINGS. I THINK THAT WITH THOSE MODIFICATIONS TO THE WORK PROGRAM, AND WITH YOU PROVIDING A REVISED BUDGET THAT FACTORED IN, WE JUST NEED A FACTOR FOR THE CANDIDATE, EXPENSES FOR INTERVIEWS, AN ITEM TO REFLECT $10,000 FOR A TOTAL BUDGET EXPECTATION COULD BE $50,000. WE NEED TO HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF US. I’M TRYING TO GET US TO A POINT WHERE WE COULD AGREE THAT UNDER THOSE TERMS THAT THIS REVISED WORK PROGRAM WITH A BUDGET ADDED IN WITH $10,000, OR WHATEVER YOUR ESTIMATE IS, FOR CANDIDATE EXPENSES AND HAVE THAT BE THE BUDGET. COULD WE APPROVE AS A BOARD? COULD YOU LIVE WITH THAT FRAMEWORK?>>I COULD LIVE WITH THAT FRAMEWORK, BUT I DON’T HAVE THE EXACT DOLLAR.>>DO WE NEED THE EXACT DOLLAR? I’M LOOKING FOR AN ACTION THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE BOARD TO TAKE TO APPROVE A WORK PROGRAM AND BUDGET. YOU GUYS COULD APPROVE THE BUDGET. I’M COMFORTABLE WITH A BUDGET ORDER MAGNITUDE. YOU ARE ALL ACTUALLY THE BUDGET APPROVERS.>>ARE WE SPEAKING DIRECTLY IN REFERENCE TO THE CANDIDATES AND THEIR EXPENSES, OR ARE WE SPEAKING ABOUT THE BUDGET AS A WHOLE?>>WELL, THE BUDGET AS A WHOLE, INCLUDING THE CANDIDATE AND THEIR EXPENSES. I’M LOOKING FOR A WAY FOR US TO CHANGE IT. I’M PROPOSING THAT WE KEEP IT THE SAME EVEN THOUGH WE’VE MADE SOME CHANGES, IF YOU CAN LIVE WITH THAT, AND LET’S ADD IN THAT NUMBER FOR CANDIDATE EXPENSES, AND IF YOU GIVE IT TO US NOW WE COULD APPROVE THE WHOLE THING. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ]>>WE’VE GOT ESTIMATED ADVERTISING OF $3,800 IN YOUR BUDGET RIGHT NOW.>>YEAH, $3,800, BUT I DON’T KNOW IF WE’RE GOING TO BE ADDING SOME OF THOSE OTHERS.>>RIGHT, AND YOU LOOK AT JUST [INDISTINCT] ALONE WAS $3,600.>>WELL, WE COULD ALSO DO THIS. IF WE’RE ALL UNCOMFORTABLE AND YOU’RE NOT THERE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FINAL DEAL IS, WE COULD TRY TO DO IT NEXT TUESDAY. WE ARE APPROVING A SPECIFIC.>>YEAH, THAT WAY SHE AND I WILL HAVE HAD SOME DISCUSSION TO WORK THROUGH.>>DOES THAT WORK FOR EVERYBODY?>>THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD ADD IS THAT WE NEED TO COME UP, IN THIS GRAY SHEET ARE THE OTHER PLACES THAT NEED TO HAVE LISTINGS. THE ASSOCIATION OF LATINO ADMINISTRATORS AND SUPERINTENDENTS IS $150. IN DIVERSITY, THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR SCHOOL EDUCATORS, THAT’S ANOTHER $350. SO, I THINK THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO AS A BOARD IS TO TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT THIS AND IF THERE ARE PLACES THAT YOU REALLY FEEL FIRMLY, THEN WE NEED TO ADVERTISE AND GIVE DIRECTION ON THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD INCREASE THE COST AS MUCH AS $2,000.>>WE DEFINITELY NEED TO ADVERTISE IN THOSE AREAS. DEFINITELY.>>WOMEN IN HIGHER EDUCATION IS $559. I THINK TUESDAY COULD WORK FOR US, BUT WE NEED TO GIVE YOU FEEDBACK BY TOMORROW IF THE BOARD FEELS STRONGLY THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT WE NEED TO ADVERTISE. I GUESS I WOULD ALSO ASK YOU WHAT THE POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURN IS? IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO LOOK AT THIS SUPERINTENDENT POSITION IS ONLY LOOKING AT WOMEN IN HIGHER EDUCATION. IS IT GOING TO BE SOMEBODY THAT’S GOING TO BE SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO BE OUR CANDIDATE?>>NOW, LET ME JUST GIVE YOU MY BEST PRACTICES WHEN IT COMES TO ADVERTISING. I DON’T LIKE TO ADVERTISE JUST TO SPEND MONEY TO SPEND MONEY. I DID WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME OPTIONS HERE. THE ONES ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS, OTHER OPTION: ADVERTISEMENT. I WOULD RECOMMEND THOSE BECAUSE DEPENDING ON ASA ON OUR TIMELINE WE PROBABLY WOULD PROBABLY BE LOOKING AT 90 DAYS ON THAT ONE, AND THEN ON EDUCATION WEEK I WOULD DO IT THE THREE TIMES WE’VE SAID. THE REST OF THEM ARE A VERY SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY AND A LOT OF THEM ARE FREE. WE GET PRETTY GOOD RESPONSE ABOVE THAT LINE. BELOW THE LINE, THE THREE THAT I WOULD USE WOULD BE CAREERBUILDER BECAUSE THAT’S GONNA GET YOU SOME HYBRID CANDIDATES, AND THEN I WOULD USE NAPSY, AND LATINO. THE BRODE IS FREE. THE WOMEN IN HIGHER ED AND THOSE HIGHER ED FOLKS, IF THEY’RE OUT LOOKING FOR THIS, THEY’RE GONNA CATCH THE ONES UP ABOVE ANYWAY. SO, IT’S SORT OF LIKE DUPLICATING. SO, THOSE THREE WITH THE LINE ABOVE, OTHER THAN ASA AND EDUCATION, THOSE ARE THE MORE EXPENSIVE ONES. IF YOU ADD THEM ALL UP IT’S PROBABLY ROUGHLY $6,000.>>SO, WHEN THE COMMITTEE WAS WORKING ON THIS WE TALKED TO NASBY. IS THAT A $350 VALUE? DID YOU GET ANY SENSE THAT POSTING THERE WOULD BRING US CANDIDATES?>>I DON’T REMEMBER.>>I DON’T REMEMBER EITHER. WHEN SHE GAVE US ADVICE ON THE SEARCH, I DIDN’T GET THE IMPRESSION THAT THAT’S A PLACE THAT POTENTIAL SUPERINTENDENTS WOULD BE TROLLING FOR INFORMATION.>>LET ME JUST INTERJECT THAT BOTH NASBY AND ALICE MAY BE MORE OF A SYMBOLIC GESTURE ON YOUR PART THAN A PRACTICAL ADVANTAGE BECAUSE THOSE CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT OTHER WEBSITES. THEY’RE GOING TO NOTICE IF YOU DON’T USE THOSE TWO.>>YEAH, IF YOU DON’T USE THEM THAT MAY BE A MESSAGE THAT YOU DON’T DELIVER. I HAVE A NUMBER OF MY ASSOCIATES THAT ARE FOUNDERS OF BOTH OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS AND THEY WILL ASSIST GETTING THE WORD OUT.>>I THINK YOU ALL, AS PART OF YOUR REFRESHED PROPOSAL AND BUDGET TO MAKE YOUR BEST RECOMMENDATION THAT WE THINK THE ADVERTISEMENTS AND PUBLICATIONS ARE THE IMPORTANT ONES FOR YOU TO MAKE DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR.>>TO GIVE YOU THE IDEA OF THE BUDGET I’M GOING TO.>>THOSE ONES YOU JUST MENTIONED, THEY ARE ABOUT 5,000, SO WE’RE CERTAINLY SAFE.>>SO, YOU’LL DEVISE A REVISED WORK PROGRAM AND BUDGET ARTICULATION FOR US TO REVIEW AND HOPEFULLY APPROVE AT OUR MEETING THAT ALSO CONFORMS TO WHAT YOU NEED. I ALSO JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT IS EAGER TO MAKE SURE THAT NUMBER TEN IS OUTREACH AND NUMBER 12 ARE THINGS YOU’RE ALL COMMITTED TO BECAUSE BOTH OF THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT. NOT JUST POST THIS AND SEE WHO ANSWERS. WE WANT SOME REAL HELP IN CONTACTING GOOD PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE FIELD.>>SO, ON THE 16th THERE WILL BE A REVIEW OF THE REVISED WORK PLAN, REVIEW OF THE REVISED BUDGET, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE SOME MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PROFILE, AND WE’LL HAVE A DRAFT OF AN ADVERTISEMENT FLIER FOR YOUR REVIEW AND FEEDBACK. YOU DON’T NEED TO APPROVE THAT, JUST GIVE US FEEDBACK. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?>>YEAH, THAT’LL BE OUR SUPPORT STAFF. WE’LL DO OUR BEST GETTING THAT FLIER.>>MARILYN, DID I MISS ANYTHING?>>NOT THAT I SAW.>>DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ISSUES OR CONCERNS OR THINGS THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE ARE TENDED TO? YEAH, RICHARD, SORRY.>>THIS WAS PROBABLY BROUGHT UP AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, WHICH I MISSED, BUT I NOTICED ON THE TIMELINE YOUR MARCH DATES ARE ALL 2/14 INSTEAD OF 2/15. THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR WORK PLAN AND THEIR WORK PLAN AND MAKE ONE WITH THE TARGET OF APRIL FOR US TO MAKE A DECISION. LET’S WALK US BACK FROM ALL OF THAT. [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ] [ OVERLAPPING CHATTER ] [ INDISTINCT CHATTER ] ALL RIGHT, SO IF THERE’S NOTHING ELSE PEOPLE HAVE ON THEIR AGENDAS. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. WE NEED TO CLOSE OUR MEETING AND OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. IS THERE ANY PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AT THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION MEETING? HEARING NONE. MIKE, CAN YOU END OUR MEETING?>>I’D BE HAPPY TO.

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