Is the Gender Pay Gap Real?


Good morning, Hank. It’s Tuesday So a while back I said in a video In the United States women make 77 cents for every dollar that men make in the workforce And a lot of people pushed back in comments You know, “the wage gap is a lie,” “That myth has been debunked,” “your an idiot” with no apostrophe, et cetera. Anyway, now after a lot of reading I am going to attempt to share what I have learned about the gender pay gap. Hopefully without inciting a flame war in the comments. This whole question is fiendishly complex and people far smarter than I am have spent their whole careers devoted to it, but I want to begin with a broad observation. There IS a gender pay gap among full-time workers around the world. But the size of the gender pay gap varies dramatically by country. Like, in New Zealand women working full time make on average 90 cents for every dollar that a man working full time makes. Whereas in South Korea, that number is just 62 cents. When it comes to calculating the pay gap in the United States, a lot depends on what exactly you’re calculating. Like, by hourly wage, the pay gap is about 16%. By weekly take-home pay, it’s between 18 and 19%. By annual earnings, it’s around 21%. The fuzziness here speaks to the complexity of what we’re about to get into, but basically men on average work more hours than women on average. Actually, nope, they don’t. But men work more paid hours. Right, but so, this 16 to 21% number just looks at all full-time workers. It doesn’t account for differences in education, or skills, or experience, or occupation. When you factor all that stuff in, the pay gap shrinks to somewhere between 4 and 8% depending on who’s doing the math. This is the so-called “unexplained pay gap” that is, there is no economic explanation for it and most nonpartisan analyses agree that this part of the pay gap is directly due to gender discrimination. By the way, you can find links to lots of sources in the doobly-doo. But yeah, that 4 to 8% number might sound low but even on the extremely conservative end, it would mean that women lose over 241 million dollars of pay every year to direct discrimination. I should add here that there is also a wide racial pay gap in the United States and as disccused in this Vlogbrothers video, there is overwhelming evidence that much of that gap is due to direct discrimination. Because race and gender affect people long before they enter the workforce, it’s difficult to disentangle causes here, but we do know that women of color are doubly disadvantage when it comes to pay regardless of skill level, experience, or education. Right, so a portion of the gender wage gap is attributable to discrimination in the United States, but most of it is ostensibly about choice. Choice of college majors, or flexibility when it comes to hours, or occupation. And this is what people generally mean when they talk about debunking the gender wage gap. Women, on average, work fewer hours and tend to work in less lucrative professions from school teaching to caregiving. Whereas men are more likely to work in higher paying fields like engineering or anesthesiology. And some of the pay gap can be found here, like in one study of more 120 professions, more women than men worked in nine of the ten lowest paying jobs. But of course that isn’t only about choice, it’s also about the expectations of the social order. Like, why are there more female nurse anesthetists but more male anesthesiologists? And then there’s the fact that even within almost all of these professions, the pay gap persists from computer programmers to teachers to lawyers. Some of this is the aforementioned “unexplained pay gap” but some of it is because men, on average, work more paid hours than women, which brings us to the question of unpaid work. The average adult American woman spends 167 minutes per day on housework or care for household members. For the average adult American male, it 101 minutes per day. And that work, even though it’s unpaid, is of course very real. Now, none of this is to criticize the many women and many men who work fewer hours or don’t work in the labor force at all to focus on childcare or housework. It’s only to say that women doing a disproportionate amount of the unpaid labor in the United States inevitably distorts the paid labor market. We see this especially clearly in studies of what happens to workers after they have kids. With each child a family has, women see their average income relative to men go down. It goes down about 7.5% after the first child. There have been a ton of studies exploring this, but I just want to highlight one. In 2007, a Stanford professor sent out fictitious resumes to various firms and found that female applicants with children were less likely to be offered positions and when offered jobs, were offered lower starting salaries. Men, meanwhile, actually seem to fare better after they have children in both employment opportunities and wages. This may also be part of the reason the pay gap gets worse over time. It’s near 10% from young adulthood until about the age of 35, when it suddenly jumps up. Like one study looking at business school graduates found that right out of school there was a relatively small gap but then 8 years later it was much, much larger. And interestingly, even in careers dominated by women men disproportionately advance to supervisory roles Like, most librarians are women, but male librarians are disproportionately likely to become library directors. And there are still large pay gaps within careers that employ mostly women, from nursing to librarianship. In fact, unless you really cherry pick the data, a real and consistent gender pay gap exists across almost all fields at all education levels at all ages. And at the current rate of change, this wage gap won’t close in the United States until 2058. In short, Hank, there IS a gender pay gap but it is not as simple as women making 77 or 79 cents for every dollar men make. Instead, it’s an extremely complicated web of interwoven factors. Some of the pay gap is attributable to positive, empowered choices that individual women make to work less or to work in fields they find more fulfilling. Much of it is due to direct discrimination against women, especially mothers. And much of it is also due to the way our social order constructs gender and our expectations of women. And that is something we can change together by, for instance, embracing the idea that there’s no reason for the social order to saddle women with most of the world’s unpaid work. And we can also examine the real personal and systemic biases that are distorting the way that we look at women in the workplace and outside of it. So the gender pay gap is complicated and it’s integrated with many other socioeconomic phenomena, but make no mistake – It is real. Hank, I’ll see you on Friday.

100 thoughts on “Is the Gender Pay Gap Real?”

  1. where or how was this data gathered? I rake my leaves, mow the lawn, shovel my 50 feet driveway, repair my home, etc. I’ve never met a women that does any of this. Besides that. The dishes, cooking, trash and everything else.

  2. Male software engineers at Google are paid less than women in their field for doing the exact same job. That was confirmed by Google aswell. Also, do u expect to get paid for cleaning ur house? Or for feeding ur family? Unpaid work is real, I mean, who do u want to pay u? If the husband is supposed to pay the woman, then what's the point of a relationship? Also, the husband technically does pay the wife because he is the one providing her with what she wants. If she wants jewelery, he can buy her that, if she wants food, he will buy her that, the husband generally provides pretty much as compensation for lost money on unpaid work hours.

  3. You know what's funny? Black people go through crap just like women and females, and black people operate the same way women and females operate, the differences are that women and females use their gender and black people use their race, you get more sympathy and support for women and females than you do for black people, women and females get more support in addressing sexism than black people do in addressing racism, when women and females get mistreated verbally and/or physically or get killed they get more sympathy and support than black people who get mistreated verbally and/or physically or get killed, and women and females get away with more crap than black people, yet black people get called out more than women and females. Both black people and women & females have flaws, double standards, special treatment, free passes, and both black people and women & females play the victim, operate using PC crap, think the world owes them something, and black people use race as an excuse and/or an agenda whereas women and females use their gender as an excuse and/or an agenda, and sometimes black people get away with it, sometimes they don't, but whether or not they do they get more backlash for it than women and females, even though women and females get away with it WAY more. I say all of this to say that I think it's about time we call women and females out on their crap and punish them despite their gender and the fact that they are being "oppressed" if for no other reason than this, we always call black people out on their crap and punish them despite their race and the fact that they are being "oppressed." At the very least we should call women and females out on their crap and punish them AS MUCH AS we call black people out on their crap and punish them. Just thought I'd put that out there.

  4. Their really isn't a pay gap. Just because women make choices for the family doesn't mean they should get paid more. It would be unfair to guys. Now a days it's worst everywhere else is worst. Let's say Their is no pay gap who will make the most? It would be most of the guys due to them working and the women making the choices or choose not to work. Now you have teachers and other women saying their is a pay gap. My PE teacher makes the same about each year as my math female teacher. So this is stupid -_-

  5. If you work on the same job, same experience, same hours, same raises
    Both men and women get the same pay
    The wage gap doesn’t exist
    And btw if the wage gap exists, how come we still hire men?

  6. wage gap cannot be used as an inequality between gender. If a man and a woman worked the same job, position and hours they will get the same wage

  7. Well, at least you recognized the complexity of the issue, even if you seem far too willing to still say 'gender discrimination' for the apparent actual wage gap.

  8. It depends what defines as a "Wage Gap"
    If we are talking about how Men tend to earn more money than Women, then yes the "Wage Gap" does exist, because Men and Women do not earn the same amount of money as each other
    BUT if we are saying that the "Wage Gap" is something that was deliberately caused by the "Patriarchy" and "Men's Privilege" and "Women's Oppression" and "Whatever Else", then no, the "Wage Gap" doesn't exist there, simply because it has been proven time and time again that that isn't the answer to the "Wage Gap".

  9. He's actually right, probably except for calling the decision not to hire mothers "discrimination". Pay gap is actually real. It is the "discrimination" narrative that is at the least dubious and at the most inflated.

  10. WARNING: Comments are made by toxic manlets who never had a relationship with the opposite sex, blaming everyone else, and calling themselves the victims. all due to an emotionally founded bias, and inability to deal with the fact that their is a problem worth correcting, let alone simply helping their fellow humans.

  11. Even if there is a gender gap, it's impossible to say that it is because of discrimination. Where's the evidence for that?

  12. The average woman makes makes 77 cents for every dollar the average man makes. True
    A woman makes 77 cents to a man’s dollar for the exact same job/work. Lie

  13. Raising your brats and doing the dishes doesn’t count as work. Wait do we figure alimony and child support in this?

  14. So companies should be paying women for their home responsibilities that have nothing to do with the company's productivity? I'm confused.

  15. I am a retired electrician ….some ass breaking work that VERY FEW women have historically been interested in (similar to other ass breaking trades) …. There are some pretty lucrative trades where it is NOT a case AT ALL that women are excluded from …from my perspective? They just dont want to DO the shit ….there are NON ass breaking jobs that guess what? pay LESS….BIG surprise? I think NOW …Ladies? You want more cash? Sign up for the ass breaking jobs and stop complaining

  16. Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
    Men pay 97% of all Alimony.
    Men make 94% of workplace suicides.
    Men make up 93% of workplace fatalities.
    Men make up 81% of all war deaths.
    Men lose custody in 84% of divorces.
    29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that figure was 17%.
    Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that figure is 80% and on average men serve 53% of their sentence but women serve 5% less than that
    79% of all suicides are men.
    77% of homicide victims are men.
    89% of men will be the victim of at least one violent crime.
    Mens are way more prone to be homeless.
    Men are over twice as victimised by strangers than women.
    Boys face vastly more corporal punishment than girls
    Women's Cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's.
    At least 10% of fathers are victims of paternity fraud.
    One third of all fathers in the USA have lost custody of children, most are expected to pay for this.
    40-70% of domestic violence is against men however less than 1% of domestic violence shelter spaces are for men.

    women do not have it worse than men

  17. First, the fact that 4%-8% of the gender pay gap remains unexplained after accounting for factors that can be attributed to personal career choices doesn't mean that percentage of it is primarily due to discrimination. There is no reason for anyone to merely slap the label of "sexist" on this for no reason other than "we can't find any other explanation for it."

    This argument isn't made any stronger by the fact that the person making it wrote some study on the gender pay gap.

    Second, choices women make are largely attributable to biological and psychological factors. It isn't primarily because of so called social pressures on women. Read up on the big five personality model and how it applies across cultures, even those who have done the most to treat the two genders equally.

    Third, yes, women do a disproportionate amount of unpaid labor. And men do a disproportionate amount of dangerous labor. As others pointed out, more than 90% of workplace deaths are men. Let's equalize that too, it's easy. Let's make sure more women become police officers, fire fighters, combat soldiers, etc. I have a feeling most women are not going to want to.

    Disparities between people and groups of people are the norm and have been the norm throughout the entire course of human history.

  18. The notion "the 8% unexplained is due to sexism" is just the god of the gaps fallacy. Every time 1% more can be explained, crazy communists claim that the remaining % must be discrimination.

  19. There is no gender pay gap. It’s illegal to pay someone less based on their gender. It’s been illegal for quite some time.

  20. Pay gap explained simply:
    Women work less hours at lower-paying jobs and have maternity leave.
    You’re looking at annual income rather than hourly, which is why you’re confused. If a woman is getting paid less per hour for the same job a man is getting paid more for, that is illegal and the case should be taken to court. But that pretty much never happens.

  21. Here’s an illustration to help clear things up:
    Black people buy more fried chicken each year than white people do. And you’re saying “Look, it’s discrimination against whites because they aren’t receiving as much chicken as the blacks are! This must be changed!”
    You want equality of outcome (which is impossible to enforce), over equality of opportunity.

  22. Funny how the left conflates responsibility with "unpaid work." Raising a child, household chores, and cooking are all a part of personal responsibility in the sense that these are the things individuals do for themselves and their own benefit whereas paid work is productive for society as a whole. If you are raising a child and cleaning your room not because you want to, but because you expect some reward in return, then you are not fit to be doing those things.

  23. 94% of all work place deaths are men – This is the Gender Safety Gap
    Men work more hours on average – This is the Gender Hours Gap.

  24. The only real evidence you cite which isn't an interview and actually controls for factors states that there is a ~4-8% gender wage gap, but just because there is unknown variance doesn't mean there is a gender wage gap. In order to do that, you would have to determine if that ~4-8% variance is significant. To do that, you would need some hypothesis testing; the null would be the groups means would be equal, and the alternative would be that the group means are different. For this, you could use a reasonable model (if your pay is roughly linear in factors, a linear model would be reasonable, otherwise might wanna look at non-parametric regression techniques) to determine a mean line controlling for factors for each of the sexes, estimate the variance of the data points from that mean line, estimate the variance between the mean line values at the data point x's and then use ANOVA/F-test to determine the significance. If the results of this show a real low p-val, then only you can conclude that there is pay discrimination. TL;DR there is a 4-8% gap, but you have to determine the significance (p-val) of this point in order to determine if it's caused by gender discrimination. You make real shitty videos.

  25. Why would a company pay a man more, when they could hire a woman for cheaper?
    What is the incentive there?

  26. Correlation and causation are not the same thing, are you aware of this?

    Large companies are now asking their employees to perform character trait/personality testing, or profiling if you will.

    What they are finding is that some personality types are being over represented in management positions, the ‘action takers’ and ‘thinkers’, and that hospitality/customer care positions over represented by ‘empathisers’ and ‘socialisers’, these types are respectively most represented by men then women, so maybe it’s not the simple fact of their sex causing these things but actual differences in how they approach the work force.

    If you don’t look into the reasons why people fill positions you are skipping a large area of consideration.

    Tell me, do you remember college, what did some boys want to do, make money, they would find out what paid the most and then do that, girls did not do this as often.

    Call it toxic masculinity of you want, but guys are in brutal competition with one an other to make the most, have the most, work the most, this just isn’t as common between women, boys are still told they have to be the bread winners, it’s bread into them, society places emphasis on a mans earning power much more than a womens.

    I’m in engineering, after years of study, my partner in data entry after no study, I earn 3x more than her, as it should be, regardless of our chromosomes.

  27. 4:00–4:20 it’s illegal to ask if your married or have kids in an interview so I don’t see how this is true.

  28. Show me a man who takes by force what he wants from women and I'll show you 10 women who vote to take by force what they want from men. Show me a grave created by patriarchy and Ill show you an entire graveyard created by feminism/communism.
    "Any society that negates the role of the father in the voluntarily marriage contract from decent civilization buliding men and replaces it with a involuntary centralized welfare state will not remain civilized for long."

    Women don't let their kids vote in their house,
    But we let women vote in ours?
    Women like stupid "bad boys",
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    The West is doomed.
    Enjoy the decline…

  29. So if I start a job at the same time as a woman with the same qualifications I am gonna make 20+ percent more than her because I’m a man…that’s discrimination right? So if women are protected by anti-discrimination laws, why aren’t there lawsuits on a personal level being filed hand over fist? Data is skewed because richest athletes, entertainers, and businessman/inventors are male. Pay gap my ass if you want

  30. Some of you links aren't working, just a heads up!
    I like your video and I think it's handled very well I just wish you would give more numbers on how much is based on discrimination of women or how it's proved other than the one study you cite in the video. Those with a lynx I were trying to find and could not get to work. Thanks for putting this video together

  31. It’s also illegal; if you are being payed less than the guy next to you because of your gender you can sue the shit out of the place you work.

  32. Direct discrimination? Your stupidity is stunning. Epically stunning. Where are the lawsuits? It's against the law.

  33. Wow, the pay gap is such a sinister myth, because I assumed that the great divide was when comparing two people at the same career, same level, working the same hours, with everything identical but genitals. The conclusion is lifted from a broad survey with no scientific parameters? How misinformed and disingenuous…

  34. Has it ever occurred to people that men, ON AVERAGE, are simply more competent and/or more valuable workers than women? Oops i think i dropped a controversial opinion here….

  35. There's only a gap if you use the word average, say me and a male friend were in a room and I earn 40K and he earns 60K the average is 50K.. there are also 3 women the first earns 30K the second 50K and the third 70K the average is 40K, so to even things up we need another man so there will be 3 of each and in walks Bill Gates, now mean earn on average 100 million and the women still 40K, I'm not any better off neither is my friend but the men in the room earn on average 99.96 million more… that's the issue I have with using average most of the wealthiest business people are men and it skews the Average.

  36. 2:14 Does not account for the type of education and the differences are still around 10%. It's not racial discrimination, it's someone majoring in IT or economics earning more than someone majoring in useless gender studies, ffs. This video did not include 1 minute of honest consideration, he has to push for his discrimination fetish wherever possible.

    And it starts of with the wage gap that, what a suprise, does not account for jobs done or hours worked. We've been saying this like a broken record and he doesn't understand what the wage gap is still. I will give him that at least he doesn't attribute all of it to the beloved discrimination.

  37. I’d like to point out in your OCED report, it’s pretty bias. It measures leisure like listening to the radio and watching tv (typically done by men) but doesn’t consider talking on the phone as leisure (typically done by women). You also assume the point that women do more unpaid work compared to men’s paid work, which your source does not measure. Your source only measures unpaid work between men and women, like house work and taking care of the kids. Your source is not a comparative measure of paid work vs unpaid work between the sexes. So of course more women had more unpaid work, there are more stay at home moms then fathers. So way to go, you still look like an idiot.

  38. 80% of women are mothers and 40% of men are fathers … for that reason women will always do most of the unpaid work.

  39. Asians make more than whites in America. Is America an Asian supremacist country where the whites are downtrodden?

  40. Gender and racial pay gap in tech industry?? 🤪 Wow.. you mean all the commie feminist leftist big brother silicon valley tech industry?? But why?

  41. A lot of reading on topic? Vox and hufington post?
    Show me actual evidence. Forgot to say how men are Much more willing to ask for raises.

    In my particular company woman are out at 40 hours on the dot while men stay much longer. Maybe it’s because they’re trying to avoid going home to wife. Lol

  42. Awesome! And of course, there is one other factor that the video didn't address.. why are jobs which are often more fulfilled by women, deemed to be not worthy of the higher level pays. Why, for example, is it deemed that a child-care worker or kinderten teacher, responsible for the care of our MOST critical part of of life, some of the lowest paid? Why are nurses, teachers, carers etc all deemed to be doing a job less valuable than many business people. It is our inherent bias that does not value the jobs and skill sets that (on average) many women may be more suited to, or prefered by, than men.

  43. Nice video! I have a few questions though. The most interesting number is the 4-8 percent unexplained pay gap. I tried to find it in your sources. Your first source doesn't go anywhere, your second is inaccessible to me, the third takes me to 250 page document which I don't have the time to go through. Could you specify where this number is from. Your last source actually claim it is 2 percent.

    Another claim you make is that the unexplained pay gap is directly due to gender discrimination. Which of your sources claim this. It seems to me that a part of it could be attributed to other factors the study didn't take into account.

    It is good with sources but it would be appreciated if you where more clear on which statement comes from which source.

  44. The wage gap is simply the average earning of men and women working full time. It does not count for different job positions, hours worked, or different jobs. It has nothing to do with the same job. It has nothing to do with discrimination.

  45. you are saying the wage gap is real by looking at the per hour rate at which they get paid, however all jobs dont pay the same so this is irrelevant. Men are willing to take a lot of jobs woman wont, such as brick layers, brick layers which are 99% men

  46. on average a man owns 50 cents of each dollar he makes if his wife divorces him I guess that makes up for the gender inequality

  47. You cannot draw a conclusion that an "unexplained pay gap" MUST be due to discrimination. You actually need to prove discrimination.

    Contrary, studies have shown that women are approx. 7% less likely to ask for a raise. Is this because our societal stigma suggests women should be less assertive? We dont know.

    Also, women and men are built differently. Just so happens that MANY useful jobs never even blip their radar. Coal miners, window washers, HVAC techs, auto mechanics, etc are sparsely sought after by women, yet ESSENTIAL!! They make a choice. Be sure to be useful and you will be compensated.

    I've watched women cackle in the workplace like no other, browse facebook, shop online, etc. If you did a study on female vs. male productivity in an office setting, the results would be shocking.

    To put it bluntly, men are more productive and more essential to the function of modern society. Truth.

  48. So…that undetermined 4-8% youre talking about. Just because the cause is not determined, means that its discrimination by default? Sounds like faulty logic to me.

  49. How would women like if we gave them all a 23 cents per hour pay rise. Oh yes please they all say taking no regard of the men who actually get paid less even though they are more skilled

  50. Wait I thought there were more than 2 genders and that your genitals don't define your gender? And with that said, wouldn't Men and Women make more than the other genders? Where are the representation for the other genders?

  51. Staying at home cooking and cleaning is not inherently a female's role but there's a lot of innate different qualites in men and women that can help to shape their preferences and desires.

    https://youtu.be/tiJVJ5QRRUE

  52. If you do same job, same hours it same pay. I’ve never made more than a woman doing the same job and can’t find anyone else that has either. You can cry gender all day but IT DOES NOT EXIST.

  53. Here is where i am, i agree its real and there is lots reason for it. I am a factory worker however and in any job ive ever had it has been illegal, punishable by law 2 pay people different wages for the same job. So it seems that the pay gap might be more pronounced in higher income wage brackets, I've also had a lot of construction jobs scaffolding mostly and i was getting paid in a country town 24 dollars an hour in Australia to risk my life every day no safety just deadlines and ur fukin fired if its not done. That this is like 1 dollar more than people stacking shelves. But if u go work on shutdowns then the pay doubles so it seems to me it depends mostly on where u are and wat u are willing or able to do to find work for lower income people.

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