Is It ‘Morally Disturbing’ When Charter Schools Skim Highly Motivated Families?


At the 2000 Republican National
Convention the country got one of its first glimpses of a new type of public charter school. The slogans of our schools are not, “all of us can learn” but rather “all of us will learn.” The claim was that with enough rigor and devotion such schools could close the achievement gap between poor minorities and their wealthy white counterparts. There are no shortcuts. You’re here at 7:25, you stay until 5:00, you suffer through two hours of homework, you come on Saturdays, and you come during the summer. The shining example was the Knowledge is Power Program or KIPP. It’s a public school unlike just about any
you have seen before. There’s no more excuses, the school down the block can no longer say well what can we do? But skeptics pointed out that the families showing up at KIPP and other “no excuses” charters were self-selected. Charter schools by definition are not random collections of students. Students who choose to go to charter schools are likely to have more motivated parents. Every student, every parent, and every teacher must commit to KIPP’s regimen of long hours and hard work— —in writing. In 2006 a combative former New York City
Council member named Eva Moskowitz co-founded a new charter school network with the same approach. I think parents deserve in real time something better. Success Academy was KIPP on steroids. Trouncing many public schools and wealthy neighborhoods on the annual state exams. Enter the education writer and former public school teacher Robert Pondiscio, who spent a year embedded at a Success Academy in an effort to figure out just how these schools do it. In his new book, “How the Other Half Learns,” Pondiscio reports that the critics were right. Not only is the very act of applying to the lottery self-selecting, but Success Academy makes such rigorous demands on parents that it disproportionately retains the most highly motivated families. And that dissatisfaction brought as many as 5,000 parents to the armory in Washington Heights. The result is that an applicant’s chances of winning a seat at success in its annual high-stakes lottery aren’t as competitive as many had claimed. Pondiscio found that there are about six applicants for every spot. However because so many families drop out, the chances of getting offered a spot are actually closer to 50%. But for those that make the commitment the impact is transformative. And he argues that these kids deserve the same access to a great school that upper middle class parents finagle for their children, even if it means leaving the rest of their communities behind. Let’s be brutally honest, when you take that child away you’re damaging the public school system. But where do we get the right to treat anybody’s child as a public resource? I sat down with Pondiscio to discuss why he believes motivated families deserve the opportunity to exit their district public schools, which a New York Times reviewer called a “morally disturbing conclusion to his unsparingly honest book,” and his challenge to both supporters and detractors of the school reform movement. Robert Pondiscio, thanks for talking to Reason. Thanks for having me. Let me start with the question who is Tiffany, and why does she matter? Oh you’re going to try to make me emotional first question huh. Tiffany was a student in my second year
of teaching at PS 277 in the South Bronx and this was a little girl who, you know I like to just you know tell this story, she would come to school every day in her uniform. The building could fall down and Tiffany would be behind her her desk scribbling
away and when I pointed out to my special ed supervisor at the time that
look I’ve got this kid I’m not doing anything for her I’m basically ignoring
her and she said verbatim quote she’s not your problem meaning you know why
are you focusing your attention why you concerned at all about Tiffany she’s
delivering the results we need but at by the same token this was a kid who was
deeply bought into what we were doing so she ended up moving to Pennsylvania
graduating from a perfectly fine State University but I’ve been troubled for
the last 15 years like what could this kid have been if she were in one of
these so-called no excuses charter schools where you know she was pushed to
go not just to college but to a terrific College you know the ultimate
achievement gap in American life is in test scores it’s the leadership gap you
know we’d all be working for this kid with her incredible work at it so you
know the thesis of your is that Success Academy is the type of
school for the Tiffany’s of the world yeah I think that’s right so are the
success schools actually a random lottery are they random
how does had a success yeah this is complicated but it’s worth unpacking the
moment a parent raises his or her hand and says I want a charter school instead
of the neighborhood default public school I would argue that parent is
almost instantly setting himself or herself apart from the parent who
exercises no choice whatsoever you’re at least curious about what else is out
there so describe the average success parent then yeah and and again I’m gonna
keep saying this but this is also anecdote not right not data because the
data is just not available to my knowledge so I spent a year embedded in
a in a school in in the South Bronx literally across the street before I was
a student teacher and in the same neighborhood where I taught Tiffany and
others I went in a fifth or a second grade field trip at one point and I
promise you I’m not making this up there were more dads chaperoning that field
trip that I saw in five years of parent-teacher conferences in my old
school observably every morning you see father’s you see a couples married
couples or at least cohabitating couples dropping their kids off so a pattern
emerges and I got to know quite a few parents and the way I describe it they
are over-represented married employed almost invariably religious and/or
spiritual ambitious for their children what’s the level of minority 101 okay so
this is and you’re not describing people who are you know a kind of double income
highly professional white Asian yeah it’s not gonna happen in some other
neighborhoods with Success Academy it certainly is but the school that I was
teaching or embedding in in the South Bronx is is is not really gentrifying at
this point the way other neighborhoods in New York City are and you success
will say what is it it’s something like or you know where it seems that for
every slot at success there’s what something like forty students or you
know there was six to one there are six more applicants for every seat then
entering the lottery then then ultimately end up getting place why is
that a misleading well because and this is take someone packing to the the
enrollment lottery is the first step in the process once you so let’s say this
is from memory I think there were something like 17,000 applicants for
3,000 seats the year that I was in success 3,000 are immediately seated and
are told congratulations you’re in 7000 are told sorry no room at the end as it
were the rest which is another six or seven thousand are placed on a so called
likely list remember that term likely and this was all random assignment
absolutely 100% random so then the next step is you’re invited to a welcome
meeting which is kind of a little bit scared straight I mean to success
academies credit they could not be more clear about what they stand for and what
they will not stand for like they they will say the one person who I quoted the
book said this is not Burger King you don’t get to have it your way
there are uniforms that these are the hours we will suspend your kid as early
as kindergarten if they break our rules etc so they could not be more clear or
emphatic about their school culture that scares some folks away or if you don’t
show up to the Welcome meeting and you don’t reschedule then you were dropped
then comes to confirm your interest email then comes a uniform fitting day
then comes a dress rehearsal for kindergarten at every step along the way
some number fall away and and we don’t know why perhaps there are a lot of
other charter schools they decide no I’d rather go to that one than this one but
at the end of the day what’s undeniable is that your chances of getting in are
closer to one in two and because of this kind of aggressive acculturation that
goes on during this process my thesis on this and I think success somewhat
disagrees with this is you end up with a parent body of either true believers or
those who are willing to have their their parenting kind of molded a little
bit because because success makes prodigious demands on parents you’re
gonna read to your kids six books a week you’re gonna check the homework you’re
gonna fill out the reading logs you got to drop your kid off every morning by
7:30 you got to pick your kid up every day it’s I think 3:45 Wednesday’s a half
day 12:30 there’s no after-school there’s no transportation and again I
don’t want to paint the picture that this is being done deliberately to to to
to call the her notice but as a practical matter it’s just
easier to comply with these cool culture demands if you’ve got the bandwidth of
two parents or at least a support network well you’ve got somebody so if
you’re living at kind of chaotic disorganized life it’s just kind of hard
to do that yeah so and so this all goes towards
your thesis really that they’re not creaming students yes to get and we’ll
talk about the the results and how good people who go through the Success
Academy seem to be doing but that they’re creaming the parents yeah and
you know I’ll be honest Nick I wish I hadn’t framed it that way that they are
creaming or cherry-picking parents because at the end of the day those
parents are creaming or cherry-picking themselves right my more nuanced point I
hope is that it’s it’s not oh it’s the parents stupid
it’s the conditions the cultural condition the school culture conditions
that that self-selection sets in motion look you know if you have a just so
school culture with that is a high expectations very demanding etc you
can’t impose that on people you know you have to at least start with those who
want it or those who are willing to to have their efforts directed so in other
words this simply would not work to impose this on my old school or almost
any other school so it’s a more complicated thing than it’s the parents
it’s it’s the starting line it creates the the buy-in and that’s the key idea
that makes this this level of rigor and high expectation doable is Success
Academy representative of the Charter movement as a whole or successful
schools as a whole that’s a really great question I mean and I don’t think I have
a firm conclusion about this I think I asked the question in the book because
the entire idea of IDI reform for the last 20 odd years has been you know if
you have the right conditions every child can can learn at a high level
success academies results are so unusually good that it raises the
question is this a proof point or is this kind of the reverse perfect storm
that in its relative rarity proves that this really is not you know widely do it
well now what you’re talking about is different than the way that Eva
Moskowitz talks about what success does um and she says look our model will work
for 99.9 percent of kids that it is the school that’s transformational not
things that are happening before and after and things like that uh you know
other than that they do their homework is that just wrong Wow
I mean who might have disagreed with Eva Moskowitz I mean she’s created this
fantastic network of schools and I’m just you know some guy who sat in them
but yeah I kind of disagree with that or in other words the proof point there
would be will then take 99% 99.9% of students and they don’t do that and you
know this puts me in an awkward position because at the end of the day I’m
strongly supportive of what they do but I just don’t think that that’s what
they’re doing because if that is what you were doing
then you wouldn’t put those hurdles in front of kids you would just you do the
opposite you take the first hundred kids in the door and you’d fight like hell to
keep those 100 kids in the door so it’s it’s weird to me to think that you know
on the one hand you say that you can do this with 99.9% of kids but you have
these structures in place that and again I’m defending this that allow parents
ourself sort if that’s your theory then wouldn’t you want to prove that you can
do this with every child so I mean that’s an argument that success Academy
is really not representative of the Charter move of the schools that are in
the Charter movement because I think that’s right okay and and could you
disarrange could you contrast maybe briefly you teach at a school called
democracy prep what is its guiding ethos and is it as successful as success
academy what do you mean by successful I don’t really go with the option to well
define success downward sure this is this is why we could talk about this
till the cows come home the way we keep score and I’m using that phrase not
success the measure of the the standard measure of performance is test scores I
have a complicated relationship with test scores I don’t think that they are
necessarily the alpha and they’re certainly not the Alpha and Omega and
there’s other things and I’d like to look at as well so by rights I should
probably intensely dislike what I saw at success because to be brutally blunt
they put test-prep on steroids even the the curriculum is arguably even a bit
test preppy when it’s not test prep season yet I got to the end of this
experience and I found myself saying but you know I
like what I’m seeing here and and at the end of the day I think it had more to do
with what I what my bet would be their long-term outcomes and I described this
at some length in the book there is simply nothing in the experience or
history for a low-income family of color in this country to expect a good
relationship with a place called a school I mean it’s like the school where
I taught I mean it’s where you go to see how little is expected of you what what
your how narrow your horizons are so even though I don’t like necessarily
that they are test prepping kids at the wazoo it adds up to something powerful
so think of this you know you’re in a school and you’re a ten year old kid and
the test that’s that you’re being prepared for nobody’s telling you it’s
easy quite the opposite they’re telling you it’s hard you were surrounded by
adults who are pushing you you know it’s a tough love culture they’re calling
your parents every night to say how you’re doing on the most recent test the
practice tests and then lo and behold the testing day comes along and not only
do you do well you do really well you do better than kids in Scarsdale and
Jericho on Long Island so think what that means you’re now growing up in an
environment where I’m good at school everybody I know is good at school my
parents are in on it my their parents are in on it I think it just changes the
temperature so in a way I’m not even sure Moskowitz thinks about it this way
but while I don’t necessarily like the testing culture I think it’s a bit of a
game changer if I can use that cliche in terms of the relationship that a kid
feels like they’re having with their school like oh I’m good at this this is
gonna take me someplace and one would assume that general odds are one would
hope that generalizes beyond school I think well yeah if I can accomplish this
I can do other things but not only that I mean the way I like to say this is the
first and most impactful or first most important relationship a child has with
the Civic institution in this country is almost invariably with the school as
that one goes so goes the other all the others you know there’s a review of your
book and the New York Times ultimately said that you produced a morally
disturbing conclusion to an unsparingly honest book part of the morally
disturbing conclusion is that this is not for all people is that morally
disturbing to you you can look at a kid like Tiffany and say well
you know we need her in this failing school because she’s a good role model
to the other kids etc and when you take that child away and send her to a
charter school you’re damaging the public school system well you are let’s
be brutally honest I mean this is something we’re not supposed to say in
ed reform but is it and and and there’s data that suggests it’s not true but as
a teacher I know if you take Tiffany and three or four other kids like that out
of my South Bronx classroom my job is harder not easy don’t don’t tell me that
this is somehow gonna benefit me I would argue it is equally morally disturbing
to not allow those who are ready you know to be upwardly mobile to be fully
and well educated it’s it’s morally troubling that we deny that I mean my
frame for this is where do we get the right to treat anybody’s child as a
public resource in a sense what about those other kids you know I mean are
they you know do we just kind of write them off no no and also related to this
is the question of like is school actually that transformational because
part of the presumption of all of these debates is that you know school is what
matters not all of these other things it can be more transformational than it is
for for more students certainly and again I come back to the Tiffany example
school was insufficiently transformational perhaps what’s in 20
years we might have a different conversation the part of this book that
frankly my ed reform colleagues should not like is is where I take that idea so
you know there’s been a strong strain of thought for years among defenders of
traditional public schools you can’t compare these two things you can’t
compare the results of a traditional public school and a charter school and
it’s unfair and my answer is well that’s right
it is unfair but in the same way that it does not follow from that that therefore
we should not allow choice it does not follow from that that we should tell the
traditional public schools you should get as good a results as these schools
with self-selected parents so if anything that’s an argument for perhaps
more resources better training etc for for some folks in those schools but but
we have to acknowledge that they have when they say our job is harder there
lying your job is harder let’s you know focus a bit on the idea that it’s
morally troubling to allow certain people to escape a sinking boat or a
listing ship you know that is just not going anywhere is can you you people who
make that argument is it equally morally troubling to say no you know what the
real the morally good solution is to you know keep everybody in a boat that’s not
going anywhere or sinking right but Nick nobody says that to me nobody says that
to you I mean this is but isn’t that the argument when people say you know we got
it we got a reduce school choice because it lets people who are motivated to take
advantage of those choices get better outcomes look there’s a big iron eight
lurking in the room here which is if you are affluent white whatever you have
de-facto school choice right now if you have the means to pay private school
tuition or Catholic school tuition you can do that if you don’t you can at
least pick up and move to you know Scarsdale or Greenwich or somesuch where
your property taxes are functionally your private school tuition let’s be
really candid about that so if this is your theory of change then you need to
explain why this is a problem for black and brown people only in other words
when Eva Moskowitz comes up with a way to give a low-income black and brown
families the the functional level of choice that I have that you have well
then why is that a problem why is it only a problem when somebody does it for
them it hasn’t been a problem for decades and for the rest of us so
somebody smarter than me needs to explain how you can live with with with
those two opposing ideas in your head in the Wall Street Journal you wrote that
both sides are of the school choice of it are forced to be dishonest yeah in
arguments both for and against charter schools resorting to aspirational
politically pleasing narratives about what it takes to improve outcomes for
disadvantaged children if charter school or school choice
proponents are basically lying about the role that schools play in most people’s
lives that’s a problem I don’t think it’s doublet of public school
traditional public school supporters and teachers unions are saying like we can
do this we just need more and more resources that seems to be alive or
or misleading I think it’s a politically necessary lie I mean I don’t like
accusing people of lying but I think it’s the the practical politics here
demand that we be dishonest about that in other words support for charter
schools would probably suffer if they were perceived as a sorting mechanism as
you know the so-called poor man’s private school support for public
schools traditional public schools would probably suffer if we were honest and
say look we really can’t do this for every child right now I don’t have a
good answer for this to be blunt the only thing I can offer is we talk all
the time as teachers about meeting the children where they are it might be
helpful to start talking about meeting families where they are you know the
family that is that is drawn to a success Academy or another
high-performing charter school that does their due diligence that has that level
of investment and buy and they’re in a different place in their in their
American trajectory as it were then a family you know that is that is
suffering from any number of you know a parent in jail unemployment drug
addiction etc one of the things I think we do incorrectly in this work is we
tend to view urban communities through you know what I would call twin lenses
of dysfunction we either assume that everybody is broken and there are no
families like the ones that are drawn to to a Success Academy or we assume that
those who who are married employed religious ambitious for their children
we said we assume like I was told with Tiffany they’re not your problem which
is horribly condescending I mean either one of those is terribly condescending
but we don’t really differentiate enough can we talk uh so briefly you know one
of the knocks on Success Academy in particular is that it’s brutal you know
not just a parent yes I like okay you got to be doing your kids homework every
night you got to make sure they’re reading all these books you got to show
up when we yet you know pick them up drop them off all of this type of stuff
but that they were literally brutal to the kid there and and you know there’s a
kind of viral footage of a teacher berating a little kid yeah did you see
any of that sort of stuff and this is where I think we have really done dirt
to Moskowitz and Success Academy now look I’m not offended by the site
of kids marching in two lines in elementary school I’m not offended by
the idea that kids should set up pay attention make eye contact and look if
you take nothing else away from this book and spending time at Success
Academy you cannot mistake the deep authentic
investment that that teachers have in kids so very quickly say what is the
thing that Ed reformers who are kind of Pro you know uncritically or or maybe
not so critically in favor of charter schools and in favor of Success Academy
what did they have to take away from this and for traditional defenders of
traditional D actuals what is what’s the the main point that they really need to
grab it’s a great question and and at the risk of oversimplifying I think we
really have to focus on school culture in other words it’s not enough testing
isn’t enough even the sorting if you want to call it that isn’t enough kids
learn better when they are in an environment that valorizes achievement
if that’s what you’re trying to get high achievement and that’s really it’s
almost impossible for public policy to account for because we don’t allow
parents as a general rule to self sort we don’t allow absent of out your system
parents to pick a school culture that works for them so if school culture
really is the thing that drives achievement that’s a that’s a prodigious
challenge for the ED policy world how do we make that possible would you agree
that there’s a large concerted push back against charter so understand and as
part of that related to them over selling their impact no I think it’s
pure political expedience honest so what what are the forces there well I think
you know if you look at you know III I work for a policy shop but I’d you know
I’m not really the best policy guy I’m more of an instructional guy but it’s
unmistakable that if you look at the run up to the 2020 election the the
Democrats who are you know what the white house seemed to fall into two
camps those who are opposed to charter schools and those who are really opposed
to charter schools so you know the by my demands that by talking some of them
talk about I’m against for-profit charter schools which are a negligible
amount of charter school yeah you know I I don’t I’m not invested in a frankly to
even parse the differences what I know is that it’s its descend this
advantageous to to you know low income kids of color who have the
right now to take advantage of these environments and it’s just frankly just
weird to me that we have this category of school that has been making a
difference for some number of them and that at least one party is you know is
seems eager to throw them under the bus how do you evaluate whether or not you
know this particular choice model or this particular choice is worth kind of
pursuing I will admit that I have a fairly unsophisticated view of whether
or not choice works here’s how I view it did you get to choose do you like your
choice

98 thoughts on “Is It ‘Morally Disturbing’ When Charter Schools Skim Highly Motivated Families?”

  1. God forbid we punish people who want their kids to succeed so all those who send their kids to be warehoused and not give a damn?

  2. Teachers unions are what have destroyed public schools! Anyone that can't see that has neither logic, nor reasoning.
    In NYC they get over $9000 per student . That means over $260000 per class of 30 students. Why can't they afford to pay the teachers $80,000 a year, plus, still pay all of the utilities, janitorial staff and still buy books and supplies!? Where is all the money going!?
    In Michigan, the federal education money goes through 4 different people before $1 ever gets allocated!!! These 4 people have a combined income of $4.5 million dollars …and they don't even allocate a single dollar, they just kick the rest of the money down to people who do. I'm reminded of the scene in Office Space where Bob #1 asks Tom Smykowski, "Sooo, what would ya say …ya do here!?"
    Edit: Extra credit if you read that last line in John C McGinley's voice.

  3. I went to a charter school and LOVED it! Why would anyone argue against parents/students getting to choose their school??

  4. Why do charter schools do better? Huge reason, the deck is stacked in their favor. By the nature of admission to the school: the parents of these kids actually give a damn. At least enough to go through the trouble to get their kid in. You're eliminating the parents (and kids) that treat public education as a free daycare service. The fact that these kids parents engage at least to some degree is a huge benefit to students' success.

  5. When you listen to his arguments of single parents can not compete it reinforces the fact that we need families to stay together. The war on family is in large part to blame.

  6. How dare the poor work hard to lift themselves out of poverty! They should just accept their place for themselves and their children.

  7. We need to get rid of the Dept. of Education. Public Schools in this country are fundamentally broken because of a lack of accountability for students, teachers, and parents.

  8. I see no problem with this. I worked for several years in one of the "inner city school systems". It was an utter shit show of feral students, loser parents, and the dumbest collection of human beings Ive ever seen that collectively made up the faculty and administration.

  9. I was taught at a charter school for eight years and transferred to the public system for five years afterwards. The charter school was better.

  10. Anyone who would complain and argue that taking these kids out of public schools is damaging are part of the problem! Its about time more people started taking a personal interest in their kids education and stop trusting a corrupt education system powered by the states and federal government who are hell bent set on indoctrinating our youth! All we have to do is look around at the ignorance of our young people who are screaming for socialism without a single stitch of knowledge for what they are asking for to see just how bad public school is!

  11. 15:55 "If you take Tiffany and three or four other kids like that out of my south Bronx classroom, my job is harder not easier." Tiffany is not your teaching aid, how dare you think to harm her future for your own benefit as a teacher. The only thing morally disturbing here is your opinion of what Tiffany's reason for going to school is. She's there for her benefit, not yours.

    Ivy league schools only take the brightest students and help mold them into leaders and successful adults. By forcing Tiffany to stay in a failing public school you steal her future and her only real chance to get ahead the way Ivy league schools help the best and brightest get ahead.

    Until the failed public school system is trashed and something better comes along, Tiffany's only hope is a charter school, she does not belong to you and it is not her responsibility to spend her childhood as a motivator for less ambitious kids simply because it makes your job as teacher a bit easier.

  12. Sorry, while I appreciate charter schools being better than public, I prefer the letgrow movement combined with letting young people find their own path in life (from 12 years old onward). More tests and more homework doesn't work for many kids. It also assume sending most kids to college is the ultimate goal. I disagree strongly with this.

  13. @3:50 "she [the student Tiffany] is delivering the results we need". That story perfectly demonstrates the brokenness of public education in the USA. A "school" in the sense of the building, the faculty, the teachers union, and the school board don't "deserve" anything. Plenty of teachers are focused on the individual students, but too many institutions are just focused on how they get more government money flowing through their doors.

  14. The main thing is this…I asked white liberal teachers (I'm black independent) can black and brown children have the same opportunities to change their educational outcomes if offered. They ALL said a variation of no…one literally said "Why leave the failing school district? Why not stay and help build it up to where it could be?"

    That let me know right there who my real fight is against if I want anyone who looks like me to succeed in this country. BTW this is not a blanket statement for a political affiliation, just an anecdote of what has been consistent in my over my years in the profession.

  15. I went to Japan in 7th grade and went to a military dependent school. I came back to CA after one year and was 2 years ahead of my grade. I hated school in CA it was dull and boring, catering to lowest common denominator. I am grateful my granddaughter gets to a go to a charter school.

  16. This is a great conversation, but I hate the continuing generalization that white kids are inherently privileged. Like sure, maybe in New York City the vast majority of poor people are minorities. But go to a small Midwest town and it’s mostly white people who are mostly poor.

  17. Charter schools are just another examples of democrats hurting minorities under the vale of "good intentions". They say that it "hurts" public schools, but what it REALLY does is give minorities more chances to succeed. Democrats don't have problems with private schools for the rich but when better schooling become an option for the common person suddenly its, "THIS IS BAD, IGNORE THE BETTER SCORES OR BETTER LEARNING, SOMEHOW THIS SHOULD STOP"

  18. But it isnt fair that students who want to learn to actually get an education. Everyone should struggle in subpar public education equally – /sarcasm.

  19. It was either Socrates or Plato about Socrates an education. That once it is about money it is no longer about education.

  20. Doesn't matter, once in the real world those with $$ still hold the power, so how does knowledge provide power? Knowledge provides a different level of slavery.

  21. With the anti-charter logic then all governmental jobs, especially political positions of power should be chosen fairly by a random lottery system every year vs who has money, influence, or celebrity. That is the only fair way to do it comrade.

  22. I have to wonder what the sample size is for the 99.9% success claim. Is she claiming that it would work 99.9% of the time for any student, anywhere, or is that the success rate for the students actually enrolled in the school?

    That also makes one wonder, what is the specific measure of success? Simply passing, a certain GPA, a GPA range…?

  23. Letting the first 100 in would just skim the parents who are most motivated to get their child in and get in line first. If there is a high deman to get in there will always be some natural filtration. Unless you want to have a random later of people who never applied and then not give those parents a choice to approve or not.

  24. Is it morally disturbing when colleges brainwash students into far leftist professional victimization as they put the student in debt for life?

  25. Charters remove the teacher unions and their terrible protections for bad educators.

    Charter schools create an environment where like-minded parents who expect excellence from their kids can leverage the community for superior outcomes. Public schools could do the same thing with TAG and Magnet schools, but for their awful teacher unions and bureaucratic administrations.

  26. So first the left wanted to decrease the achievement gap between inner city and suburban kids. Then, once an effective technique was found, they decried it as racist/unfair. How in the hell are we ever going to enjoy any progress in this country if the left keeps blocking efforts like this to help minorities? Efforts which, by the way, cost taxpayers much less than regular schools. Utterly preposterous.

  27. Thank you Reason! Excellent analysis and while there are no easy answers, let people make choices and live with the consequences.

  28. Very informative interview. My only complaint is the sound quality. It's not just a volume issue. Turn up the highs, drop the mids and lows, and then you'll have more room for a volume increase.

  29. Education is a mirror
    Parents who support and push their kids education, reap the rewards.
    The lazy losers, lose
    Merit matters

  30. Oh wow… kids that want to achieve something with parents that cheer them on have an unfair advantage over students who don't give a fuck and whose parents pass out drunk every night… my god what cruel injustice! Can you believe that there are some privileged parents who take the time to read to their young kids instead of doing heroine?

  31. Even the name of the video, it sounds like someone complaining "it's no fair! Just because they are willing to work harder doesn't mean they should do better"
    It's literally the American dream. Work hard and you Can do well. I hear people saying equality of outcome would be fair and they are SO wrong.

  32. Schools don't work, private teachers that work with 3 or 4 kids at a time whenever the kids want actually work, because the kids get taught only useful shit in their own customised individual way.

  33. So, keep the motivated down to the level of the unmotivated. Great idea if you hate liberty and equal protection, and instead prefer centrally planned, one-size-fits-all government youth education camps that strives for equal outcomes rather than outcomes from motivated action.

  34. All "men" ARE NOT created equal. America tries hard to provide "equality" under the law; no-one ever, EVER promised equality of outcome. Quite simply; those parents and children self-selecting for the hard work it takes to succeed… are "Offending" the majority of the population that for whatever reason (primarily bad life decisions by the SINGLE parent) cannot or WILL NOT put forth the same level of effort and sacrifice.
    The only reason the Teachers Unions are so universally opposed EVERYWHERE is that it proves that a superior effort on the part of the Charter School staff; can and does produce superior results. That de facto their, the Unions efforts; do grave disservice to students forced into sub-par slowest speed group teaching models. That the Teachers Unions would then use their political influence to deliberately ensnare and entrap these students and families into remaining against their will in a sub par teaching environment is despicable.

  35. This much I know. My future children will not be attending public school. I am a product of public education and therefore have the foresight and experience in public education to make an informed decision. I was both homeschooled and private schooled. My time in public education outside of athletics has done absolutely nothing in preparing me for success in adult life.

  36. What's morally disturbing is threating violence towards someone if they dont give you money based on the value of their property, and then telling them "you child must be educated here."

  37. Public school teacher means stupid, lazy, incompetent. They are hired and paid good wages to make a difference. And even when the tests are dumbed down their students still fail. ANY decent person who does not fit the bill (stupid, lazy, incompetent) are moving out in the first couple of years.

  38. I find it profoundly ironic that we have a political party that is for a women’s right to choose while the same time opposed to a parent’s right choose with regard to their child’s education.

  39. They're just creating little robots. Fuck creativity, fuck sports, fuck competition. Just do what we say when we say how we say it. Pass the state tests then go out in the real world where tests dont mean a thing without practical knowledge

  40. UBI would help stabilize those chaotic parents, so that they could support their children's education. Just sayin'

  41. You stop treating schools as a place to employ adults and start treating him as a place to teach children and this problem will go away.

  42. 9:34 Uhh… I figure not long ago. After someone become a parrent, he or she is going to be a doctor, a police, a priest, a lawyer, a chef, a teacher for his/her children, the other doctors, police…teachers are just a helper.
    One should not think relinquish their responsibility to be the teacher of their children to others when they sent their kids to school.

    Gin,

  43. Start with individu, then individu who have same intention formed a group. Education started from individu unit (home, family, parrents), then come the idea of school, where it is designed to help the intention of individu in education.
    Then for some people they forget, school is "to help", not the primary it is the secondary.
    From that some who forget, some got lucky some didn't; they children turn out ok.
    But to those who didn't forget, all their children turn out ok.

    Gin,

  44. I agree completely. Motivated children SHOULD be held back to the standards of the least motivated. That way the lazy students don't feel bad./sarc

  45. 18:32 choises are based on the idea of free will.
    With free will people can make good choice and bad choice.
    When people make good choice good for them, and when people make bad choice sorry for them, but just because there are people who made bad choice then that means choises are bad (free will is bad), lets teach each other about what is good and bad.

    Gin,

  46. "Skim"? "Morally disturbing"?

    Public schools do not have a right to your children.

    Your children have the right to seek the best education possible.

  47. 23:19 what happened when public policy take away responsibility from individu. "Those who have the rights are those who pays for it" Pay the cost of education for your children (give your time and effort), don't give it away to the public.

    Gin,

  48. Promoting exceptional kids with motivated parents may have the effect of leaving the rest behind, but it helps them too. Not having the highest achievers in the same class allows the teachers to slow down and work with the kids that need more help. Teachers may deny this because they have to move at a slower pace and work harder, but if the kids need that, it is exactly what they should do. When they are doing their job right it should seem harder. I think this guy is missing half the story.

  49. They've found the right formula…..Motivated and Accountable PARENTS partnered with Motivated and Accountable Teachers/School Systems. Taking everyone to the NEXT LEVEL!

  50. My sixth grade teacher was a former army captain and a religious man. There were occasions when we marched in formation for recess. And needless to say he took no crap from any of the kids. He was perhaps the best teacher I ever had. He woke me up academically.

  51. Not every child is gonna be a winner, the level of moronic children and adults of all races shows that it's a breakdown of genetics and society as a whole. Parents have been told that it's the schools responsibility to feed, care for, nurture, your children. Urban people have no morals, no sense of responsibility and want everything for free. Charter schools are saving the kids whose parents care about their children, they are not there to suck gov money for teachers unions and baby sit bad parents kids!

  52. "Where do we get the right to treat anybody's child a public resource". The state owns all of us, it's a cult. The true nature of the state always leaks through to those who are paying attention.

  53. I disagree, people leaving to charter schools doesn't hurt those left behind, they are putting more resources into growing what works, allowing more opportunities for more kids to change schools.

  54. When I was in public high school, my teachers vehemently fought school choice for no reason other than they did not want “… to get stuck with a school of low achieving students because our district was cheap and felt that would occur”

    That isn’t an argument. Their employer being shit shouldn’t have any influence on anyone seeking a better option which they are paying for.

  55. Good interview. Oh, and why shouldnt parents who will do more for their kids be allowed to. The public school system is a shit show and charter schools provide an out for the families that will put in the work.

  56. never forget that the parents sending their kids to charter schools paying for the public school through their taxes as well

  57. Honestly there should be the option of charter schools but we shouldn't write off the benefits of public education or ignore the disparity between charter and public schools.

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