How to Plan Literacy Skills Practice Sessions for Homeschool or Classroom

hey there it's Jean here with Waldorf inspired learning and I'm so excited to be back again with Janet Langley one of the authors of the road map to literacy hey Janet awesome hi Janet is the co-author with Jennifer millets or popper all of this amazing new book called literacy and it's all about it's a guide to teaching language arts in grades one through three using the Waldorf approach so Janet and I this is actually our fourth conversation that we've had and I'll put a link to the other interviews if you haven't had a chance to watch them yet but it's been so much fun to have this conversation from the perspective of a home schooler who was also trained even before I had kids as a teacher and then Janet who's worked with well or teachers in the classroom for many many years so here we are both of us with years of experience and it's been so much fun yeah and I even homeschool my grandsons for a year my 1st and 3rd graders so I even have that home school experience behind me too yeah it's great to have all of that woven together in these conversations so the first interview just to give those of you who haven't seen all of them this is a series of interviews and the first one is developing literacy in the early elementary grades that's the first interview we did then we did developing literacy with the roadmap to literacy and we really started to dive into the organization of the book and how you might begin to use it in a home school setting our third interview is planning main lessons with the roadmap to literacy and this interview we're going to focus on planning practice sessions with the roadmap to literacy right so I'm so excited about that because this distinction between introducing new material and doing some practice within the main lesson time and then also having like a leader morning practice time it's kind of a new conversation I mean both among welder teachers animals yes absolutely absolutely yeah we in first its second and even third grade in the United States we were trained mainly to teach a block of math and then it let it go to sleep for a month while we taught language arts and then let that go to sleep where we taught math and as we Jennifer my delved into how to teach an effective literacy curriculum we realized that number one that basically we would not be able to cover the necessary curriculum in the three years if we did that the second is that our research showed us that it went against every you know every neurological model everything about how children learn yeah that actually children to learn a skill need you know they ongoing practice until they've learned that skill and for example you wouldn't invite or take your child to a violin teacher in the first grade and have them take violin lessons for a month and then say okay we'll see you in a month and we're not gonna do any practice we're not gonna do anything we'll just come back in another month that would not be an effective way to learn how to play the violin mm-hmm it's the same thing with math and with language arts with language skills is that teaching a skill takes a different approach than teaching a subject you can teach history in the fall and then let it go to sleep and come back and teach the next you know series in the spring and it's fine you don't have to practice history every day you know some knowledge of it's an understanding and appreciation but so that was that that's what happened is that somehow over the last few decades or something we world our futures here in the United States got this idea that that you taught skills the same way you taught subjects yeah actually it was certainly wasn't an effective way to teach a math and language arts skills in those first three years that's right yeah and those you don't need a huge chunk of time but you do know small amounts of time just like an instrument the way you're describing it you need little small amounts of time on it on a really daily basis or most days right to do that practice right I'm loving that the conversation also in the homeschooling world is switching into that idea of doing some short practice sessions so for example when you're in a language arts block and and the example we used in the last interview was Aesop's fables so perhaps you're doing some fables animal stories in a block in a main lesson block so that's your the main chunk of your work each day but later on after you've completed your main lesson work you can do even if it's you know 20 minutes of math practice you can just practice some math problems or whatever skill it is that you're working on developing at the time for just little bits each day after you've completed the main lesson right yeah this is actually the really kind thing to do the child because to be wanting them to learn that three times four is twelve and then not asking them what three times four is four a month and then coming back and hoping they're going to remember is you know it's one of those things where we need to work with element the developing nature of the child yeah and research and and Ashley just experienced will show that practice placed an incredibly important part in learning basic foundational skills yeah and and the corollary so today we're gonna talk about how to plan one of these practice sessions for language skills the corollary Jamie York is a wonderful math waldorf trained math teacher and he has I remember what an eye-opening thing it was to discover he has these flashcards on his website like you have so many resources at at Waldorf inspirations and it only took about ten minutes a day maybe fifteen but to review those math facts right um it makes all the difference in the world right exactly and I'll say one thing that was happening when I was going into all our classrooms and evaluating and mentoring teachers what I was noticing is that the main lessons were very rich but the practice classes if there were any were very uh well basically they were anything but practice they were finishing up copying something into a main lesson book they were going for a nature walk they were writing birthday cards you know they were basically doing everything by practice and when I thought about what it was like for me as a teacher and in talking with these teachers they spent so much time on their main lessons that they basically had no time left over to create effective differentiated in the case of numerous students uh you know practice classes and so pretty much they were just not using them if they even had them available to themselves well that's why we really tackle this and the road map to literacy is that we thought if we could give teachers and homeschooling parents teachers a template that they could see doesn't have to be all things see and everything doesn't have to be handcrafted what's important is that you do it yeah so that's why we're looking at this and saying how could we look at you know at designing and we're calling it a block it's a practice block so the practice block does in tandem with the main lesson book got it okay so yeah so I usually call them sessions to differentiate from the main lesson block but it really is a something that you need to plan for and I love what you said so those who know me know that one of my mantras to my parents and because it was a mantra to myself when I had my it's the doing that counts right so all that dreamy wonderful all those ideas of all the fancy things that you're going to do if you don't actually do it exactly yeah yeah and and in fact we we can almost look at planning every main lesson block that it's not completed until you've also done the practice extension block that follows it it's right you know you can actually look at it as one process and work on it although I will have to say that the one thing about the practice blocks is that they're you know really they begin where you left off at the end of the of your lesson block and so you can get an idea of what you're gonna do in there but especially with home schooling your children sometimes can make much more fun you know what we're repping progress because it's just one on one and so you might find oh that you kind of flew through those concepts you thought you were going to teach so maybe you did a few more so you always have to be adjusting and teaching to the child the phase the child is in the literacy face as in the roadmap to literacy and you know and just meet them but you also don't want to draw it out so that you're having them practice over and over again something that yeah Oh God they're only that I got it right yeah they'll let you know if you don't they they do theirs like I'm kid yes so here's where we're gonna start I'm gonna share my screen and this is really an extension just like you were talking about we're paralleling that modeling that an extension of the last interview we're gonna start there is this um because there's some overlap here so there well first let me backtrack a little bit Janet has this wonderful website that she put together with another teacher patty Conley very timely thank you I'm called Waldorf inspirations and I recommend this all the time telling parents because there are so many resources here yeah there are birds for all grades so for one thing this is where you combine a road map to literacy book it's the place where you buy it the place thank you place yes yes the place for that clarification but also you can find under grades here so all the way early childhood through eighth grade there are resources on this website all kinds of activities and games and block ideas and story ideas and I mean so rich but there are tons so we're focusing on second grade and I go to planning what you'll find is this block rotation right here secretary block rotation so that's what we're gonna look at I'm gonna stop sharing and show the actual form but I just wanted to see first of all I want to point out that there is an extensive number of resources at Waldorf inspiration sky but you can also find some of the planning forms that are in the book and that will run you be helpful for you so let's go to that first forum that we started with actually on the interview number three so I just have to switch there we go so this is the block rotation for second grade we're using second grade as the example grade and what this points out so this is a whole year right of a suggested block rotation and what we wanted to point out is that the well on the far left column it shows which block you're in and you know so the first block four weeks long but the main lesson block is kind of in this center section here and then the practice block is over on the right right right exactly exactly so you can yesterday we talked about the last interview we talked about how to approach planning a main lesson block that's that may yes that column over there on the left and then today the right-hand column and you can see that while a math lesson is going on your practice block will be language arts yes really and then when you're in a language arts block your practice will be a math practice yes yes absolutely and by doing that then you're again you're allowing your children to Milan make those neural pathways and to make those connections solid so there will come a time when your child will look at you know five times three and no that's 15 and never have to think about it again and so obviously that's and that requires ongoing practice and then it's and then you don't have to practice that anymore right because they got it all right so now we're gonna switch again and look at some forms for how to go about planning one of these practice blocks or practice sessions and we have two forms we have a blank one need a filled out one and this is really I just wanted to point out that this is for a week's time right so this is three weeks worth of activities there are also forms that you can find at Waldorf inspirations that have just one day write run a page so I just want I don't have those we're not going to go through those today but I just wanted to point out let me let me just say that the forms that we're going to be using now and the forms that are directly related to literacy are actually you'll find them on the roadmap to literacy section of Waldorf inspirations website and just scroll down to the bottom right now we're going to make them we're redesigning the page so it's easier to find them but right now you just scroll down to the bottom and you'll find all of the different planning forms and there are many that we refer to in the roadmap to literacy but it would have been probably six hundred and fifty pages instead of six hundred five and we put all of those in there so we just tell you to go to alder for inspirations and download them there but they're not in that grades planning section you know yeah I'm you're gonna just go back and point that out so the very first form that has the block rotation for the year is under the grades like it's so grade two planning and that's what we showed you but the majority of the forms for this look as Janet is describing are here under roadmap the roadmap to literacy and you can scroll down and find them in this teacher planning forum section for grades one through three and there's there are a whole bunch of different types of forms right easier the forms that we use yesterday and the ones that we're gonna look at now right okay good clarification thank you for and thank you yeah remind me okay so first is blank form and this is actually for second and third grade second or third grade and and here is a blank one so why don't you describe to us Janet what is here on this page it's a one-pager uh-huh call them okay and it gives you the days of the week across the top and then the types of activities over on the left with a little bit of a time suggestion right right and like Jean mentioned yesterday the the time again another wonderful thing about homeschooling is that you can sort of time these things just by clearing into your child and seeing are they really into it okay we'll go we'll continue a little bit are they you know if really quickly they get bored then maybe you need to shift the instruction or you need to sort of shift what you're doing a little bit to get their attention back but anyway yeah these so on the far left-hand side the that will tell you what subject is being taught during that time session and we just have it set up in such a way that it maybe takes an hour and again for for our home schoolers it may take 30 minutes 40 minutes to you know covered this it depends on you know it depends on the day really doesn't it but but so if you were if you're planning your practice block and your math block was four weeks then you would have four of these forms that you would fill out one for each week of that block that and that you would just continue to carry things out and so Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday you'll see have a pretty similar rhythm Friday when we get over to that I'll talk about why that has a different spacing and good yeah so so this is in some ways similar to planning the main lesson blog we talked about in the last interview year that there are these shorter transition times in between so you would be working on a particular group of skills 15 to 20 minutes and then have some short transition activity we're gonna show these equals of this in just a minute and then introduction or review and then some book work so and as Janet pointed out and we're gonna again see examples Friday's are a bit of a different day which is perfect for home schoolers because most home schoolers I know have a their rhythm their daily rhythm Monday or four days a week tends a certain way and then they usually have an additional day that is different you know they have a play date or they have you know go do some kind of outing or whatever so this fits quite well alright so now we're gonna show you we're gonna pop back on the screen here and tell you the the filled out form right tour a second-grade practice block so here we are this is an example and again it would be one week there's no glass to read this it's a it's it's longer filled out right then the blank template but why don't you describe this to us okay so um like Jean said this reflects the rhythm of what you would do in and main lesson it just makes it either because you're easier because you're used to that that rhythm and um and what we're having the what we're suggesting in skills review is that you are working on whatever phonics rules grammar rules what you know whatever your subject is that you're bringing out of the last main lesson and so you are working on that and then you continue your spelling program and in this case in first and second grade its sight words that and then third grade you're actually working with this billing program but this these sight words this is what you would continue to do and you continue to carry those silver that's the third thing down you would continued with that throughout the practice block so you would be working with sight words during your language skills practice block as opposed to sticking it into your mapping lesson and and so again we talked yesterday about how the fact that sight words can be pulled out of poems that you're using if they can be pulled out of just about anything you're doing and also it's nice to reflect if you're working on a particular phonics rule if there are sight words that have that phonics role in there like yesterday we talked about the owl sound and so down and around were two of the site works that we worked with that week so anyway one thing about syllable cards and you see down on that's the first quadrant over there in the left hand corner and then mystery words now these you will find in the road map to literacy you will find them on pages 170 to 172 and these really are methods for helping develop symbol imagery and we know that when we want to spell something especially when we're learning to spell that we have to visualize the word in our head and and so you're visualizing how do you spell below well that were below appears in your head as you're writing it down and so this is and this skill can be developed and so this is similar words I mean silver cards and the mystery words are techniques and helping children be able to visualize how to spell words and we work with words that use phonics rules that we're working with at the time anyway so that's you want to make sure that you're working with simple imagery in first and second grade almost on a daily basis and by the end of 7th of 2nd grade children if they've really been working with this should be able to hold a seven letter word in their mind be able to see it and that's because seven letters is the longest English word that is one syllable and you can't sound it out like if we go be low we can go B B then low L o W but when it comes to the word through thr ough there there's no syllabic a ting it out right right and so we have to be able to visualize that word in order to be able to spell it now I get this question a lot what do you suggest to parents because in a homeschool setting you may only have one or two children in grades one through three right mom children come to first grade or second grade as we're talking here already knowing how to read so do you still suggest some games and these act some of these activities oh for sure yeah the thing is is that if a child learns to read very early they have a very that you have a very strong symbol imagery they have a very strong ability to memorize what a word looks like right and know that that's that word however that what we recommend with those children in particular is that you use nonsense words with them when you're when you're doing using phonics rules and you're practicing conics real say for example you're teaching them the oh ugh spelling of though of the long o Oh ugh and and so but but they in the rate reading they have memorized the word and so what you would do is you would have them to something like I'm trying to think bro vro ugh and there would be a nonsense word never seen that word they would actually have to use their phonemic awareness to sound it out right and what happens is those students often hit a wall they can read everything in you know third for second third and fourth grade literature because so much of it is still fairly simple in its vocabulary and spelling and if they come to a word they really don't know they'll just skip over it unless there's someone around and they're curious to ask but but then what happens often is that in fourth fifth grade they'll hit this wall where the vocabulary what they're reading is multi syllabic and they don't have the phonemic awareness skills to sound it out right and so they'll end up coming across vocabulary that they cannot read and and then all of the sudden the rest of the class by in in the case of classroom bypasses so students and the parents are upset because they've always thought if their child is a great reader their child says and the teacher yeah in a homeschool setting it's it's frustration you know yes that yes so you want to make sure that in this is really important you want to make sure that even though your child if your child has taught themselves to read is a really good early reader that you want to make sure that they do know all of these phonics world skills and phonics rules that are laid out in Section four of our book that will give them the skill set they'll need to tackle multi syllabic more sophisticated words later on yeah if you can't memorize every single word I mean that's I mean I guess maybe some photogenic memory I mean a photogenic mind maybe but but anyway you give them the skills and the way you do that is by using a lot of nonsense words yeah they've never seen that before so they actually have to yes we're honest to sound it out yeah I mean have fun making up a definition for it yeah that's fun I love what's a clasp yeah okay ask me anyway yeah the typically symbol imagery is not something that you really need to spend too much time on if your child has really strong symbol imagery where you need to put your focus within beyond learning phonics skills and all those phonics rules through nonsense words oh yeah okay okay good alright so skills practice we've got skills practiced and every Monday you would introduce your sight words and then you would find different ways to practice them throughout the week and I in in the in the great language arts section of our book you'll find some files ideas about fun ways to learn difficult words that or also homophones I mean you know like with blue and blue yeah if you're getting ready to write you know I have a blue pencil how do you know which one it is and so how do you know how much one's it is spelled and so you have this like image where well if if it's the wind blue then it ends with the W for the wind you know and if it's the blue for you know the color paint then the UE there's the U is their cap to hold the blue paint so you know you can come up with there's a lot of ideas that you can come up with to help your children remember remember home offense and then also learned how to how to do these sideways yeah yeah good good okay and if I can also see I might dis mission you can see your plan is that you would carry you know the activity on Monday you would carry if it says if it you would carry it over throughout the rest of the week and just use different words you know just use different things but we're only talking about 15 maybe even Tim yeah minute you're with these right now uh yeah you know just uh quick but but practice yeah yes okay so then we have a transition and we shared some about this yesterday but I just want to reiterate here because I've had this conversation with so many homeschooling parents that instead of a super long circle time at the beginning of your morning you can break it up and use some of those activities like poetry recitation beanbag games songs and things like that you can use those for just one at a time for treatment right right and you you definitely want to work with the child's natural tendency to be able to sit focused for about 15-20 minutes at the most and then they need to get up and move and you know if you don't build it in with purposeful movement they'll do it anyway yeah yeah you won't be in control or they'll hit a wall on things I'll fall apart yeah okay okay so now if you've had that little transition then you're going to move in you've had your review got your literacy you mind warmed up got a little bit of transition to get the Wiggles out now you're going to look at introducing or reviewing the you know the phonics rules in the case of the main lesson block before that you just finished was all about introducing a number of phonics rules and practicing reading and practicing writing and you know everything using it all together and so you're going to be working on that but for example if you've finished when the rule number eight which is the last rule and I don't remember what it is in in the phonemic or in this face and the students are really ready to go into the pattern face mm-hmm and you would introduce word families to your child and gene was go let me say something about word families so you'll notice in in roadmap to literacy we're very clear that consonant vowel consonant words such as bag of B a G and word families using the word bag are to be taught very differently and at different stages so when you're developed when your child is developing phonemic awareness that means that they are developing an awareness for every sound in a word so you don't want to clump words together or letters together you want it to be but ah you know and then they bring all of it together so that is C BC and we really really want to keep children in that phase until they are very solid in their phonemic awareness and really do hear every sound and can pronounce every sound and recognize it yeah yeah once that's happened that's one of the indicators of moving into the pattern phase and with the pattern phase we begin the year with with word families because they're familiar with these CVC words mm-hmm which and which word families have a lot of CVC words in them but we're going to teach them how to read them in a different way so we're going to introduce them to the AG family and there's gonna be bag and wagon sag and drag and flag and all of that and what word this is really a reading fluency process and technique is that the children once they know that when AG is together it's the AG sound then when they see a word that it ends with a G they automatically know what that is so just look at the onset or the consonants that go before yeah um that you know that ending and that family and and just stick that on so instead of it being flag it's AG anyway so this is a way differentiating why CDC is taught differently different method yeah Lee but word family is a great way to start second grade or the pattern face because you're using all of those phonemic awareness skills that you had that you already had learned but in the new process yeah it's a great distinction and just remember just a reminder to everybody the CBC's are the words that are consonant vowel consonant that's thank you yes yes okay like dog yeah bag yeah dog good okay right so we and then you know you can see that that goes you know how does this work you introduce about word families and there's a really nice introduction imagination again right in the book and then then you practice it use you know that for maybe you didn't use it with the dog family on family then the next day you would do more activities more working with word families the next day there's a kid writing maybe they're going to use a little bit in there or you could again practice so you just want to move the practice along just yelled on it yeah across the week okay alright this is a little bit more specific to a classroom but these are would be different ideas of activities that you could do each day yeah and except I would yeah I would say that what you might do is look at one day maybe have them do some kid writing again and that's chapter 3.13 and the inner book and an incredibly effective tool for learning to read probably one of the most effective tools there is and then tools there are so so with reading you might read one day then the next day have them do kid writing and the next day reading next day Kim writing you know you can yeah you know work it out that way yeah or create a rhythm you know for yourself that on Mondays we do this on Thursday and see and and if you yet if you do create that rhythm then you see it doesn't take much to plan this yeah right we're helpful so true yeah yes and so the chances of it happening are much greater all right okay well those are our forms that we just think we have to go to Friday oh no we look at Friday from yeah yes so should I go back oh yeah to the time yes okay so this thing would slide a yeah yes that you could look at maybe four days and in the case of home school maybe three days and use your Thursday to come to your Friday if you use your Friday to leave and go do playdates or something but on the last day of your teaching week in these practice blocks that's a time for assessment you want to you know give a little spelling some kind of spelling activity that would let you know if the children have learned those words if not you carry them over you know one of them over to the next week whatever then also it's it's a time where you can assess the phonics rule that you've been teaching them in this case word families are they giving work families I mean you know if they figured out oh that's Auggie and then if you gave them the app family and they could figure out slap and lap and SAP and nap you know then then they're ready to move on to the next to the next thing and that's the one thing about practice blocks that are different than what we've learned before which is typically what you practice and practice blocks are the the things that you learned in the previous language arts block when you're practicing them right however there are so many phonics rules to learn by the end of third grade – really really deliver your child into the fourth grade curriculum whether it's in public school a Waldorf School or the home school fourth grade curriculum where they're doing individual readers they're doing reading you know research about their animal or you know whatever they're doing that there are there are so many funny skills that really what we need to do is to continue those to keep them going so and you never know how long it's going to take your child to learn a phonics rule and you just once they've learned it and because they build on each other it makes no sense to you know teach Homa phones for example blue and blue until the your child has learned about all the valve teams that actually make up the home of phones and that more explanation in the book on that but anyway so every every phonics rule and in roadmap to literacy has its prerequisites and that the students have to know in order to do that so that's the thing is that really teaching phonics rules is an ongoing thing for the first three three years you just keep I mean you can take a break here and there between them but but really once they've learned one that they can use to read to decode you're ready to move on to the next one which is going to build on that yeah and so it's this sequential process that you don't want to drop and you also can't it's because you're doing any little informal assessments and seeing where you are and what you need to bring next and and in some ways it's easier in a homeschool setting to do that because you could practically I mean sometimes that kind of informal assessment is happening happening on a Monday when you're just doing the activity right you make a little note that you know you need to do more of this what but it is I one of the most helpful things I've found about these conversations we're having it's just that idea of pulling the thread forward from the previous main lesson block into this month's practice block and then kind of doing that alternation between math and language arts it's right Orton rhythm for us to understand in order for the skills to develop yeah yeah it is and it just it keeps you know it just keeps the search steady flow of growth and learning and in developing skills that it's so exciting for the children because step by step as they grasp one more skill then they'll start to you know they'll find it in the books they're looking at in the books that they're reading and and then it just it's so empowering to them to have this ongoing growth of knowledge that they can then use in their writing and in their reading very exciting for them and and you can see it doesn't really take much right plan of you know a practice class every day and again you'll figure it out some children thirty minutes is all they're gonna need or one 1/2 and then other children I my grandma sense like I said told you yesterday the one grandson this a 30 minute practice block would be just fine that's all he could have handled and after a main lesson but right and then my younger grandson he can do this stuff for an hour and be happy and I to say one thing to um when we look at all these events there really this is opportunity for for all kinds of practice activities that you can find all kinds of fun practice activities and you can even use some of those fun practice activities on Friday you know to check out how are they doing on the phonics rules and I have a Pinterest account and it's Langly 50 but I have boards for every single block in every single grade and so if you go to you know if you go there I have lots and lots and lots of ideas for how to you know create practice activities together or you do that for your child anyway so there's a lot there too that is even you know more because it's not mine I mean yeah Walter for inspirations Ria's reflects about sixty years of teaching which that patty and I have done however of course you know Pinterest is everybody sharing everything everybody that's wonderful I only I'm gonna we're gonna come back on and I want to share I will add the link to your Pinterest below the video because I think that is a great place I have a Pinterest account too and it's such a wonderful tool for collecting ideas right yeah and I often share with parents when children do need this when they're trying to plan out these practice sessions so that they can bring they can help their children move forward right with their breaths with their their reading and their writing skills it is I think it's so important to keep it playful so to be able to find these games and activity ideas is right right the one thing I might add about the these activities there are two kinds of activities activity is we call it activity a in our book but these are activities that maybe you engage with your child and you do it together or if you have a classroom they're doing it you know a couple children together in a team whatever and and it's an interactive and of course as the adults in the home school situation you can set it up so your child is doing most of the work or as much as they can in the learning but I think you can even have them teach you but but when you talk about an assessment then you're really selecting an activity that that child has to do on their own yeah and they and you're bought you know your body language you can't help them yeah part of that activity if you're going to use it to see do they really know it yeah yeah and then you're really in an observation mode right yes yes observing engaging yeah exactly and and there's but there's lots and lots of those fun activities and the students don't even a clue they're being assessed yeah yeah exactly well thank you very much for letting me share some of our ideas with you and I know that I I think it's been great because how we're approaching planning and this is so in line with what you're doing already or tutorials and how you work with your the people that that follow you and so I'm very very excited to see where things are supporting each other for for even improving literacy the you know literacy instruction I am really excited to and I really have a lot of home schoolers are interested in in this I hear from them actually I'm quite a few that have gone to waldorf inspirations and sent me a message and and it's yeah we're all we've almost got it now where I think the book will be able to be ordered in Australia and New Zealand the UK and where it excellent will be printed there and so the shipping costs will quite a hefty someone told me that I'm working within Australia said it cost $171 to have our books said to her oh my gosh the cost oh my good no the cost of the book but but it was the books you know the books three years of curriculums are $25 a year but if you want to look at it that way but the cost of shipping it was you know double yeah yeah so I'm so glad so those of you who are interested in purchasing the book you can go to Waldorf inspiration start right over here yeah that's where you buy it and and I will have links to the whole series of interviews that we've done it's just been a fabulous conversation yes thank you I look forward to to hearing how I'll share with you the feedback that I'm hearing homeschoolers to and and will continue the conversation because it's a great you know I might mention one thing is that if when you go on to roadmap to literacy usually there on the homepage there's a list of intensive trainings we're doing for for teachers and I always ask that homeschool parents be included in those intensive so if anyone wants to come and do a three-day training you know on the roadmap to literacy and the curriculum and how to approach it with activities and you know things like that you're more than welcome and we always have some homeschool parents there as well so that's good that's wonderful and those trainings are on the website as well so are the homepage they're listed there yeah yeah we have one coming up into this month in New Hampshire and another one in August and Connecticut and I'm in conference with British Columbia maybe in August later August so I was this close to coming to get to you in person at the end of June but well we'll have to do that we will didn't happen this time but soon so thank you so much dad thank you yeah okay guys take good care anyone sure

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