EUA webinar: Approaches to cooperation and exchange in learning and teaching on a European level



exchange in learning and teaching on your Kindle and we will be talking about how university corporation and clear learning on learning teaching could take place at European and also at national levels so my name is Sarah and I'm from the UA office and we'll just facilitate today's webinar and then we will also have three presentations from my colleagues before I introduce you my points I just would like to point out to a few technical features technicalities where they did to this webinar the first thing to say is probably that it is recorded and it will be available later on on the Inuit YouTube channel so you just you can either just go on YouTube afterwards and search for your PIN University a suspension channel or all those who registered and just because you're there with us will receive an email with the link to do webinar this was the first thing I needed to tell you the signal technicality is that you as a participant are able to also interact through the chat box so whenever you feel like I would like to ask a question or even comment please do not hesitate to drop us a line or leave us your question on the chat box there were at least several moments during this webinar where we will take questions from the chat box to the presenters now that all these technical information has been set I just need to introduce you to my three presenters today so the first one is reserved escort who is the Palestinian project officer at the higher education policy unit here at weight and Lisa will talk about national initiatives in learning and teaching in Europe and definitely we'll have a little exchange moment the second presentation is from my colleague Susan next to me it's current table she's also a course in Budget Officer here anyway and she will talk about inter-institutional exchange in collaboration and specifically on lessons learned from the you a traumatic peer groups and finally the last presenter we will have today is Miguel he's the director of the higher education policy unit here at and he live address joint efforts in teaching enhancement and what can be done actually can level drawing specifically from lessons learned from our effect project so now I will leave the four first to Louisa to talk about national initiatives in Europe in learning and teaching thank you that is hello everyone first of all can you hear me well yes okay um so today I said as said I will be talking about a study on national initiatives in learning and teaching in Europe that I wrote last year with my colleague Michelle gable the starting point for this study was in fact one of the flagship studies and initiatives of VA called trends 2018 so in trance 2018 we found very interesting results on institutional development in learning and teaching but the study itself fail to produce easily readable data on national policies and initiatives in learning and teaching so we identify this gap and also this need to know more about national initiatives in learning and teaching in Europe and so we decided to do research on this and write the study the study is derived also from the effect project the European forum for enhanced collaboration in teaching that's the long name of the project that my colleague Nakia and I think will say more about it the study basically is is based on a series of semi structured expert interviews on national learning and teaching initiatives that we conducted in the period November 2017 until August 2018 we managed to cover 28 higher education systems from the European higher education area and in the slide you could see the the all the 28 systems that we that we covered we focused within this study on three main areas name namely mapping national initiatives in learning and teaching then an area on teaching enhancement and by teaching enhancement I mean pedagogical staff development be that initial teacher training where continuous professional development whereas the third area was more on obstacles and enablers for the enhancement of learning and teaching in the systems that we that we covered in terms of national strategies for learning and teaching and and you could see the the map here the in a majority of cases most concretely in 54 percent of the system's learning and teaching is part of the overall strategy for higher education and in fact when this is the case then learning and teaching basically is not is not represented by specific goals rather by generic goals and rarely contains action plans and financial incentives attached to it in another 14 percent of the cases the systems have a dedicated or standalone national strategy or framework for learning and teaching and this is the case for instance in Austria in Ireland the Netherlands and Norway in the study itself you could see that these systems are described more in detail and you could you could see what we mean by a national strategy or framework for learning and teaching in these specific systems interestingly enough discussing with with experts from countries without a dedicated national strategy for learning and teaching a slight majority said that they would prefer to have such a framework such a standalone framework most of them said they would appreciate such a thing because they believe that such a framework would be done accompanied by a concrete action plan by financial as incentives and could represent per se an incentive for the enhancement of learning and teaching in their in their systems another takeaway from the study is that the increased attention to learning and teaching in the European higher education area is also or is in part due to the enhancement of quality assurance so we could definitely see a link between quality assurance and learning and teaching especially since 2015 once with the launch of the European standards and guidelines when a new indicator if I may say so was introduced namely student-centered learning for universities to really ensure that there's they're their processes are student-centered and they're learning and teaching a student-centered they had to enhance on the other hand in their internal quality assurance system so you could see this interconnection between internal quality assurance student-centered learning and the enhancement of learning and teaching one of the key messages that and that derive from this study is the fact that EU funding matters be that through Europe through erasmus+ or the European Social Fund in matters is for the enhancement of learning and teaching especially in systems that do not have a strategy for learning and teaching that funding is its course we mapped several cases where through EU fund the English initiatives in learning and teaching were created that in the form of learning and teaching centers this is the case in Estonia or pedagogical staff development courses to name but but a few now shortly in terms of teaching enhancement with teaching enhancement again what we mean by that is pedagogical staff development having the interviews with these national experts we realize that teaching enhancement is usually organized by individual higher education institutions through their centers for learning and teaching or faculties of education joint inter institutional initiatives for teacher training remain limited and the same goes for higher education institutions in Europe asking for the service of external for-profit organizations for teacher training here you have a map on the situation of teaching enhancement in the countries map mapped you would see that a quarter of the system's map regulate teaching enhancement whereas in four systems while not legally required teaching enhancement is commonly implemented in a majority of cases most in more specifically 17 cases systems rely mainly on measures at individual universities we also tried within this de studied she met the link if any between teaching enhancement and career progression well the picture doesn't look too good in this sense only in nine so basically 32 percent of the 28 systems mapped participation in teaching enhancement courses counts for career progression in the remaining systems participation in teaching enhancement has no or has a an insignificant impact on one's career promotion which mainly relies on research output the same goes for financial incentives financial incentives or rewards for academic teaching staff participating in teaching enhancement are not common at all just one last point to mention as in the beginning I said that we also discussed with national experts what are their what are the obstacles and enablers endured in their countries for the enhancement of learning and teaching the main obstacle is the very fact that research is valued more than teaching that there's no parity of esteem between teaching and research and the second most widespread and most important obstacle would be the low governmental funding I think I'm I'm really at the limit of my time so just to say that the report can be can be accessed online under the following link I think we can also disseminate it after the webinar ends and the at the end of the report you were you you could see an overview table which is per country so then you can find concrete information for the 28 systems we will also have time at the end of all three presentations to take questions I will perhaps just ask you a little a little follow-up question was I right now because you mentioned it's going to be a little bit complicated perhaps I mentioned on one of the three slides that in terms in the case of countries without any national strategy at this tough time the experts who interviewed told you that they would be in they were having one I got it correctly so do you think from from the researching conducted would you say that national strategies are actually a necessity I'm not sure I think there's no right answer on this but of course my my colleague Mikhail with whom I conducted this research could could step in and comment on this as well I think there's there is there is no clear answer on this I think some of the respondents considered having a national strategy as beneficial whereas others considered that this is not really needed especially in mature assistance so in systems where institutions are already doing a lot in terms of teaching in for the enhancement of learning and teaching national strategy is not really consider necessary in fact there were also discussions in terms of academic freedom and and institutional autonomy that that that revolved around this topic so I think it's very we cannot talk about a straitjacket or for offer one size fits all approach so I think we would have to be a bit careful today today in national context when when when putting forward such a recommendation in turn institutional exchange and cooperation so lose yours thank you so I will of talking about our European learning in teaching cinematic peer groups and just to give you a little bit of an introduction what exactly they are and what their purpose is of course the very bottom of our purposes with these groups is to consolidate the European dimension in weakening in teaching so what if thematic peer groups are is it is a set of groups which have been running already since 2017 always a set third year and they are composed of institutional representatives of publication institutions of all kinds of national and regional and institutional contexts and profiles at the bottom of the methodology and purposes of course peering and exchange of experiences simply direct institutional exchange on what kind of challenges are encountered in terms of the topic and what are all resolutions in place houses problem being addressed and what could be recommended to other institutions to take on the same issue of course the broader goal is to finally contributes to the enhancement of learning and teaching in all its variety across Europe even have an overview of what kind of groups we've been having so far and what is going on right now that's the very left did you have the 2017 groups and if you make your way to the right you land in 2019 words so far we have had 85 participating institutions covering 26 countries and as you can see every single group Hastur on topic but of course the group topics build on each other interconnect have lots of touching points therefore we have lots of identified challenges and also recommendations issues addressed of overlap and many of these groups come to theirs listen conclusions which is very interesting I highly recommend that you reach the group's reports they are all available on the EU a publications database you can see the links here it will all be sent out and every recommend because I can only catch on the surface of the interesting topics and you can read all the details in different reports ok to get right into the topic what kind of key challenges were addressed all over and over again regardless of the group balance in a scheme between research and teaching Louisa has just told us about the current situation across Europe and truly across the world as well it is a topic that effects learning and teaching at many levels for example of most universities stuffs career paths if there is less encouragement to enhance teaching or to engage in quality teaching of course research will always get more attention more funny etcetera community building new learning and teaching is a important topic that is addressed all over and over again because we do have the research community established across universities and there are similar efforts to establish learning and teaching communities you know teacher staff communities but that is difficult then of course very important and central topic which is on everybody's mind is how to educate those strata eights that are on high demand in the current job market what kind of brilliance new societies need we need independent critical thinkers who have solid transversal skills with active citizens how exactly do you transmit how exactly to you give students or provide students with these tools there are various methods used student-centered learning is is control demand at the moment research based education active learning but also cross-disciplinary approaches which enhance transversal skills our approach present across institutions and curriculum design of course also needs to fit this purpose continuous professional development of all staff do all is acknowledged because one issue that has been addressed multiple times for multiple groups is that there is a bit of a focus on either teaching staff or research staff are you to mention support staff but continuous professional development needs to cover all staff categories and also acknowledge that staff categories are not actually separate categories but that staff at University often cover most support activities research and teaching so the Isreal point in keeping these categories Seibert finally good teaching how to define it incentivize it and how to reward it is one challenge at rest by many groups now the poor souls in connection with the question of career caps for teachers the design of learning spaces is also something that has been addressed on multiple types we are now in the lucky situation of having advanced technology that allows us to enhance teach learn enough physical electrical necessarily or not all the time but also to turn other spaces into riveting spaces and what this is actually for those unique spaces that are left behind in for teaching methods and finally a very important challenge to me because I have been recently writing about it is how to affect a cultural shift in the university environment as the ship would include all stuff that campus involved students institutional leaders and still wider higher education community as you can read about this cultural shift which has been identified in multiple reports by automatic pita groups has been summarized in the LNT apron and the six titled towards the cultural shift in learning and teaching he considered link in the presentation of course it is also available on our publications database it has been written by Giotto Paulo the director of our institutional development unit and hand 22 that we traced to the recommendations just to give you a couple of highlights linking teaching and research to alleviate some of the challenges that have been addressed multiple times already is very truthful recommendation research based learning is for example recommendation it has been brought up it can help to under one hand balance the workload but also estiga is awarded to the research institution activities of academic staff it provides students on the other hand with a very valuable transversal real-life based skills but also for example in the form of scholarship and learning and teaching scholarship on learning and teaching would provide teaching staff with a chance of profiling themselves as scholars and experts in their field which may also help to alleviate the imbalance of esteem between teach and research with career paths in particular for promotion our topic that has been addressed and one recommendation is that career paths should allow for different foci in different stages of the career Chris it is also runs down to complementing and variety scale measures no one remedy for enhancing career paths and promotion chances for teaching stuff but simply mentality shift and it is reflected in institutional structures and brain works that recognizes the teaching profession is not separated from research or other tasks of the academic profession that is being seen central and also a very important recommendation has been coming up over and over again establishing a peer evaluation community to match this there is peer review based approach in research what is it all about is that in research circles we already have an established practice of evaluating and reviewing each other's work and similar measures are currently being established across universities in Europe and there are institutional frameworks in place to help build a teaching community but at the same time it is still a long way to really reach the same level of community that we have in research as for teachers and inclusive approaches to organizing and designing university life is also something that has been addressed by multiple thematic peer groups this concerns curriculum design it concerns assessment processes but also design of learning spaces inclusive means that not only support staff administrators staff and leadership are concerned with designing how their curricula is supposed to look like or what a learning space looks like but its students are really involved as well as not consumers correctness in education is vital stake and all kinds of stuff people on campus are involved not just in order to finalize a great product but also to make a community of practice everybody working together on campus to really make high quality education and one interesting recommendation to achieve this pass pin to strengthen the focus on the current level so of course strengthening the focus on the program level is on the one that something that should help you make meaningful fit for purpose programs that make sense from the curricular structure because teaching stuff that might be the tendency of focusing on single horses and they might make sense for teaching stuff perhaps nestled for students receive these courses we take part in these courses so in order to make coherent programs biggest focus on program design with a program point of view would make sense for both students and teaching staff but finally it would also help the teaching staff to do the community if they have the program as a common increment is a common platform to exchange and experiences on their teaching portfolios and many valuables to each other this would also help to build this kind of community feeling among teaching staff that has been addressed before I elaborate please save his important dates the 2019 thematic groups are currently at work and the topics are evidence-based approaches to teaching internationalization and learning in teaching student assessment curriculum design and their topics and work will feed into the 2020 European learning and teaching forum please don't forget to sign up it is hosted by bootrec University in February 2020 and for everybody interested in learning and teaching this is a highly relevant interesting event alright thank you very much vilela thank you for your presentation I just would like to directly answer – one of the questions in the charts somebody is asking another is asking if the presentations will be sent so that's an easy one that can take care – the answer is yes now I have perhaps a question quick one for a minute because we had a big run out of time and you mentioned in several things the peer learning communities and also what you just saw designing etc that all turned around the issue of collaborating within institutions we also talked about about peer learning across institutions between different institutions but I would like to perhaps ask you to comment a little bit on this because we know from research we conducted but those so from from discussions with colleagues across Europe – teachers are doing residents do work in an increasingly collective manner so could you perhaps comment especially with regard to what institutions could deal with us and what's their rule yes this is actually a very challenging topic because we would think that encouraging teaching staff to collaborate work together it would be relatively easy fix but in fact it is not it has been addressed as a challenge because we do have this model of well functioning collaboration and community looking to the opportunity of practice and peer evaluation among researchers and the reason why I'm bringing this example again up is that this is also where we the challenge lives in order for community for a community of practice and for collaboration among teaching stuff to really work it is important instead institutions set up a framework for this kind of collaboration that does not hamper career progression so it is important seventies frameworks which are already set up as which needs to be elaborated in others do not make career progression on the one hand and collaboration with colleagues and peers on the other hand compete with each other and this importance that we measure is part of being set up in this regard and this devil it's important that not one single measure is being put in place but it many measures are working together for example as I mentioned having different stages in your career might help to let he/she self focus on their teaching activities instead of research in one point of their career than others we also have been talking about clear evaluating this is especially important for early stage academics so for example PhD students will also Android at universities they often delay this kind of peer support and you know being involved so they needs to be teaching enhancement professional development measures right from the beginning and throughout the career and different measures needs to come in as well of course it all needs to be careful that and well balanced all right by March 11th I think we will go now into our last presentation and then we already have one two three three families of questions and say that we will address after the last presentation all together so I was presentation is from the young giver and Sheila talked also about collaboration but mostly about developing a European dimension for learning and teaching so the floor is yours well thank you Therese and not sure if I have much content and to add to what has already been said it's probably more a reflection on the points that have been made so I think when we start to talk about a European dimension for learning and teaching I think the first question is what could that actually add how could this support what is done by individual teachers by institutions and by national level initiatives and probably starting from teaching and teaching enhancement I think one point that we could take up and we try to do that through the effect project and also through the learning and teaching forum and the TP G's is to somehow advocate more comprehensive and more complex notion of teaching enhancement so when we started in 2015 we were often confronted with views like well it's just about teaching teachers a few tricks so how to use new methods and how to teach with digital means and so on and I think it's once you delve into the matter you find out how how that this is very simplistic actually and that the issue as Helen also has mentioned it it's really about stuff development probably even more as the teachers if we talk about teachers they're in fact part-time teachers and we sometimes prefer to talk about stuff with teaching responsibilities because they are also researchers they're administrators they work on outreach third mission goals and and and so to get a more realistic picture of the academic profession and situate and teaching as one of the tasks that they have to fulfill and ask what they would need and what they would need is probably also about thinking about different formats that could be used so I think the dissipation and the conference could be one projects could be a way and also the peer learning schemes that not only be used but probably others also moving away from them from the idea that they that there are special methods that can be have just to be learned and applied then in classroom and also what the goals for teaching enhancement are if you saw the list of the thematic peer learning groups you could see this was not all about pedagogics but it could be also be about by the wider goals in the effect project for example we had a series of staff development workshops sensitizing the participants to issues of social inclusion and citizenship just to give an example I think this is this would also help to create a motivation for participating in these courses another point and that has also linked to this and that has also been mentioned by Helen already it's really about how teaching is recognized as a professional activity and that it becomes part of the career path and the analogy with research is in the linked with research is I think very important because we know that from the trend studies we when we asked the respondents more than 3-hundred from from all over Europe what do you see as the key obstacle for learning and teaching development at your institution right after finance what all identified is the second big biggest challenge was that there was no parity with research so whatever you do in teaching in your career it doesn't count or does not count as much as research and I think these are important issues that have to be it could be addressed at European level and get a more shared view about these issues we know that in some institutions as today's mentioned they already addressed some systems have taken them up but this is not here everywhere I think the second point that I have here is about and that came up again and again in the forum but also in the effect project and its events is creating space and opportunities for meaningful conversations and for collaboration this sounds banal but as Elaine has mentioned collaboration between teachers is not very common yet two to one has to build an understanding that this is not just about individuals but about teams that have to work together on teaching and that it requires also support from the entire institution including to the leadership and I think strategies have been institutional strategies have been one of the foci of the effect project and when you bring in the issue of strategies you often get an interesting reaction that falls somewhere between fatigue and alarm lights I would say and one has to explain that this is not about a strategy that sits them there as a piece of paper or on the website but really strategies developed in participation with the members of the institution staff and students and as a basis for collaboration and strategies which are also underpinned by resources and structures and there I think we see some interesting developments and some institutions also concerning the leadership support that these strategies will require so increasingly we can see that the that the office of the Vice Rector academic is changing so that was traditionally the person who from an administrative point of view has been in charge for learning and teaching staff and students but nowadays this is really the person who is in charge to develop a vision for the institution and ensure that the many top-down the many bottom-up initiatives that exist in the institution that they are somehow resourced anchored and all together in the profile that the institution wants to develop on learning and teaching so when I say this about how you can do that within institution also to nurture the race talk Helen talked about culture to nurture a culture therefore learning and teaching and also a culture for participation I think you could also do that of course between in among institutions and in university networks and this is what we see that this is going on we don't know much about it but we were actually surprised on how much institutions indicated in the trend survey that they collaborate with parties outside of the institution louisa emphasized national initiatives that exist in some countries some were initiated by national ministries but some were also brought into existence by universities for example through the national retros conferences and I think that's that's an important point so how can these structures how do these structures work how could they be strengthened I think that would be an important question then when you ask for European level initiatives what how could we contribute to exchanges for example among national initiatives I've been yesterday at a nexus event Nexus is the network in Germany on exchange in learning and teaching established by the by the German directors conference and there the issue came also up how can we may have more exchange also across the national borders so this would be something that this is something that we do already through the learning and teaching forum we bring people together from different national initiatives but I think what is also important we also bring people in who don't have national initiatives and if I look at the list of the participants I think they're probably quite a few which may not have which can maybe cannot rely on established initiatives for learning and teaching in their own countries so what can be done and I mean concretely well we have the forum for learning and teaching already ongoing we have the thematic peer learning groups we had some initiatives done through the effect the question is then how to develop other ideas we made some proposals in the effect feasibility study that has been published last month I'm not going into details there just to mention here in the end as my time is also over this is important for the institutions but I think it's also important for policy making because we as EU a but probably also colleagues at national directors conferences get more and more into under pressure to say what we actually want and saying just well leave it to the institutions they will somehow sort it out might not be good enough anymore if you look into the Paris communique 2018 there is a headline there whole section on innovation and learning and teaching and I think many of the things that I said there are quite useful but in the next round it will be important to fill them with concrete things thank you know I think when you still have a little bit more than 15 minutes left we will have time for an exchange and I also see that there are some questions that actually started to fluid so I will perhaps pick them in the order and first there was my questions for Louisa I think yes there was a question for Lisa because this relates more to international initiatives it's a it's a question it's a question from Philly promptly hello filly from Belgium and she's asking and not other initiatives for teaching enhancement our demo important it can really gracious is managed a national level rather than at institutional level how do you is that something you could say from your research or your interviews this is more systemic link between national initiatives and care management at national level first of all hi Philip I'm not I'm not sure to what extent we can debug this connection if I look at the nine systems that said that basically they reward teaching enhancements through career progression you have a top-down approach where we're basically the ministry decided perhaps I'm not sure to what extent this is the case with with higher education institutions that this should be the case so for instance in Austria you have this link part of the performance agreement in Denmark teacher training counts to the extent that teacher training is compulsory for junior academic teaching staff so if they want to move from a system professor to associate professor they would have to prove that they have undergone teacher teacher training and and and so on so of course this is this is this is relevant as long as you have a national national framework but I think career progression is is managed by the institutional leadership within the framework of course if this is the case of a national systemic approach to career progression if they are assessing teaching excellence at institutional level I thought this is something I can answer if I'm hey could you please presentations yes master beginners yes when you talk about teaching excellence framework so models the first one that comes to mind is of course the best number one is of course the one per to decay and it's such an excellence framework elevating the national level and against which institutions are as fast but this is debated framework as well in the cake on West yeah a few others first such frameworks and also several that are discipline ways discipline related and this is something actually one of the thematic clear roots of 2018 at the one entire part of teaching specifically much into so despite you know I hope are on your screen it is this it's the second thing can be a Python teaching the recipe was a record and you can perhaps go and have a look what the group did is that they had a PhD candidate conducting a research throughout all existing teaching frameworks and I'd let the group made a proposal for what they called a teaching expertise framework they deliberately that deliberately left out the word excellence because they wanted to underline at the developmental dimension of this framework and it could be a model for self-assessment it could be a model also assessing teachers but more no it most importantly sorry it could be a model for having a common language for holding this what we shall call these meaningful conversations about learning and teaching so the idea of the TPG of the thematic people looking at you teaching brain wattage related frameworks was also the idea that whatever the current market model is it should contribute to nurture this culture of teaching and learning communities so that ultimately it makes sense for the staff themselves in a developmental perspective but also in the perspective of bringing learning and teaching into conversations so that was for that question there was another question sorry there was another question I think well with regular comments from the University of Turku in Finland from Latin hello she says just one notion about teacher collaboration research shows that pure collaboration can start from learning from each other so exchanging good practices or best practices but in the end the most important benefit is actually emotional support and well-being at work in general have a nice looking at me so I think she would like to comment on this yes because you just mentioned to report about career paths in teaching and actually that one was very enlightening in this week as well because the group conducted interviews with PhD students or becoming researchers and they actually do a test to a very broad feeling of insecurity competition stress or the one hand because it is very difficult to balance all the different requirements of academic life and one point not really being able to how you are supposed to do all of this has to be a first class researcher at the same time they also because they're very often in the beginning real support also in terms of teaching training and the more readily touching upon another question that we received through chat is missing so of course peer collaboration can enhance teaching it can lead to evaluating and improving each other's work but of course the emotional support is very important at the starting point of this is a very important point especially in terms of early career teachers or researchers because they are often active support and community because it is also important to keep this up throughout my life circle and I mean I'm sorry I'm already touching upon the next question because it connects to this issue evening a dictator over from worse so comments that good teaching is not only about knowledge of the subject so disciplinary knowledge early or break success in research but it's also about soft and transferable skills so these transversal skills we have been talking about in terms of how truly educate valuable active citizen leaders so teachers training should be part of masters and PhD training so it's about initial teacher training and we do indeed funded initial teacher training is offered a certain point in the career but not always part of PhD training and hardly have a part of master's degree students training very often there is initial teacher training but then follow-up actually stopped missing so another recommendation of a lot of the groups is that teacher training teaching enhancement efforts continuous professional development all of this should be a continuous effort it needs to be provided right from the beginning preferably right at the beginning maybe a little bit before the academic career starts and continue throughout of course there should also be incentives to engage in this building actually rewarding a technology taking part in this teacher training and trying to improve and innovate your teaching methods Thank You Helena if I can just make a comment on this about initial teacher training and included in PhD this is something actually we've looked at when conducting the transfer search so from the either way transfer survey that we contacted in 2017 and the publication dates from October 2018 you can find it very easily under in your website publications and by just searching for trends and one question in France was to also a ton and a little bit to what extent is is part of this is part of the PhD training and to what extent is this a requirement when hiring academics and when we found out and we also took some other sources from the European Commission for example is that it's only in a minority of systems across the U and across the European higher education area that teacher attacks and teacher training is mandatory in PhD training so it's not really that common actually and then we of course as you already stress that when the most important to imitate what they do and in that regards the thematic people on career paths also found that through a series of interviews of PhD candidates that the issue with this is also time pressure at each time because it's not that they don't want to get training to be better teachers but they have so much pressure in terms of having outstanding research outcomes to advance in their careers that's the ins sometimes not that easy actually to really concentrate on making the best the most out of your teacher training this actually relates to the previous question about as well all right I have five minutes left so I will try to be intelligently selective I have a question here from a lady from Spain hello I'm sorry my sister here you mentioned scholarship of teaching and learning to what extent this could be the more realistic way to enhance learning and teaching in research intensive University so this is a question about basically researching on teaching if one of the presenters would like to comment on this sorry sorry yeah I think it links a bit to what you just said about teaching debutantes teaching beginners so the question is can you get it into the academic career because this will matter so the same warning properly I mean of course it would be desirable if people doing a doctorate when when they get also an introduction into teaching methodology and then and and on the other hand if that only comes on top of everything else that they should do and knowing that they will be assessed recognized through research will that be useful on the other hand it would be worth opening the discussion and to say as you have to learn research methods so have you also to learn teaching methods and is not should not everybody who teaches also have an understanding and a sense of who was a researcher also have a sense on how he teaches how he communicates on on his research thank you very much I see that our participants actually are heating up and there are a lot of commerce circulating on the top rocks so thank you very much to all for this fortunately our four hands here because we also have eNOS our colleague who's helping us with this I have a question here from Manila from Barcelona aluminum our city here as well he's asking if it is more effective when facing what is more effective sorry when facing teacher training having all the community of teachers all together to take advantage of their differences or split it in two phases considering a considering the stage they are in so better to have all teachers together trained or and then so that they play on the complementarities or better to take them at the stage of the burgundy are two stage of Canada are I'm not sure it's an easy question actually I'm turning to my presenters if any of you has an opinion I would say a mix of both essential because you are with these two kind of approaches you are addressing two different kind of purposes currently putting people in the same stage of their career together would rather be for the emotional support and really exchange on experiences after only level so the the Muslims of course we've been talking about before but also sort of community building whereas bringing everybody together with different profiles being all mixed you would really harness the power of perhaps key supervisors being able to evaluating his speech back to their education students to their twenties so I really think the most beneficial approach of course yes one short one short comment on this if I may and and and basically to cobble together what Manor said with the previous comment put forward by by Philip that we need holistic and encompassing institutional strategies in order to address learning and teaching in a meaningful way I believe this is very relevant and I think what this is not this is not coming up from from research it's just it's just a personal opinion of mine that we should really nurture and and built on complementarities as Michelle mentioned within effect we conducted a series of pedagogical staff development workshops and I think and also this based on the feedback of the participants the discussions were more more enriching and meaningful when basically we brought together not only teachers but we also involved administrative staff when we also involve students and basically when we created the the network and the platform where we're not only good practices were shared but as well as support peer to peer support so I would say that complementarities are very important when thinking about sustainable is institutional strategies for the enhancement of learning and teaching just from what has been said and I think that was also the main message that we got from the effect visibility study we basically said there is no there's no blueprint for what you have to do you have to look where are the problems where the challenges what you try to reach and then all kinds of approaches could make sense I mean you could bring the entire institution together including staff and students or you could gather the members of the physics department and discuss with them how they see learning and teaching and the same then they you operate at national level or get into international exchange think at a given moment in time certain measures might be useful and it would be important to have the sufficient resources for strategy that backs that up and people who can facilitate that I just would like to say once again thank you all for joining this webinar and thank you also for unmaintained attack box because at one point there were really several things going on I am I can see that there was interest and that for us of course is always very stimulating as well to kind of be able to address questions and and continue our reflections based on that I just would like to remind you that this way the webinars are recorded you can point them back on the you a YouTube channel but you will also receive a link to them and you will also receive the presentations and finally perhaps underlying that if you are interested in England webinars in general they usually take place on the last Thursday of the month just keep an eye on the e UN website because normally they are announced where in advance and of course feel free to join us on social media as well the Winton for example learning and teaching in European education are through hatchback implemented in teacher all right I would like to thank first my presenter so Helena's here with me but also Michelle and reserves this and thank all of you for your questions and your interest and we hope to see you soon again in wonderful new webinars of course or in our event thank you very much have a nice afternoon

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