Critical Junction – Episode 62: D.B. Cooper

welcome to critical junction episode 62 I'm mark I'm Luke I'm owed ich you wish and on November 24th 1971 a man calling himself dan Cooper later of misreported as DB Cooper hijacked flight 305 the Boeing 727 bound from Portland to Seattle demanded a two hundred thousand dollar ransom along with four parachutes and left from the plane and to infamy leaving behind very few clues about his true identity as the story goes the day before American Thanksgiving in 1971 a man described as being in his mid-40s between five foot ten and six feet tall and carrying a black briefcase purchased a one-way ticket for the 30-minute flight from Portland to Seattle took c18 C and ordered a bourbon soda after lighting the cigarette a short time after takeoff Cooper handed a neatly handwritten note to flight attendant Florence Schaffner thinking nothing of it Shaffer simply dropped the note into her first unopened and on read until Cooper stopped her and whispered something along the lines of you'd better take a look at that note I have a bomb after she did so Cooper asked her to sit beside him and open the briefcase to display the bomb which consisted of eight red cylinders with red wires and a large cylindrical battery Cooper then demanded $200,000 in $20 bills four parachutes and a fuel truck waiting in Seattle to refuel the plane when they landed at their destination Schaffner communicated this information to the pilot who in turn alerted the authorities the airline's President Donald IROC authorized payment of the ransom and instructed all airline personnel to comply with Hooper's demands following the lengthy delay the plane finally landed in Seattle and Cooper exchanged the flights 36 passengers for the money and parachutes but kept sefa loved the flight crew aboard ordering the flight crew aboard ordered them to take off again and set course for Mexico City a short time after 8:00 p.m. that evening somewhere between Seattle and Reno Nevada Cooper jumped out at the back of the aircraft with a parachute and the ransom money and vanished into history leaving his ultimate face and identity a complete mystery in 1980 $5,800 of Cooper's ransom money was found by an boy on a camping truth the FBI began an immediate and extensive investigation of the hijacking the lasted 45 years according to the bureau both we interviewed hundreds of people tracked leads across the nation and scoured the aircraft for evidence by the five-year anniversary of the hijacking we'd considered more than eight hundred suspects and eliminated all but two dozen from consideration and quote so who was DB cooper and what became of him many conspiracy theories abound from the mundane suggestion that he died in the fall to the more ludicrous like he's actually the disaster artist himself Tommy Wiseau which hypotheses are worth considering and which are pure bunk let's talk about that shall we so this kid Finn money he found it during a camping trip on a beach okay and they treated it like they traced it back to him yeah because because yes yeah I have recorded all the serial numbers of the money that I gave to him so they matched it up and determined that this was a pile of money from the DP Cooper ransom okay yeah so I mean there's some evidence as to where you whereabouts he would have landed I guess not necessarily because since it's on a riverbank it could have floated down from god knows how far away yeah they also there's a there's a website out there of a bunch of citizen scientists and people who launched their own investigation with the help of a retired FBI agent calling themselves citizen sleuths and they did an analysis on the rubber bands that were that bound feed the bills right and they determined that the the rubber bands would have deteriorated less than a year after they were put in the ground so there's no way like it's just the time the time frame doesn't work for it to be it to have been buried that long yeah so I read about some of that stuff that that people are insisting that he came back a few years later to bury that money there do it with music to drive up or or or to summon snows at the FBI yes and the rubber budget that's a number the rubber bands they should it that matter yeah but I just don't buy that yeah I mean I have rubber bands in my home that had been there for 15-20 years right and they're fine quality some of them some of them like just just well yeah as soon as you're using that yes doing these for you but you just let it sit there my dad had this had this like bigger than a softball just this big giant ball of rubber bands that he started with a penny in the middle this is similar to the to the tin ball that you could make like but I think it has something to do with like just the poor quality of the band and the fact that it was exposed to the elements firm but that's just did if if the if how the money got there was that it will it actually was like in the bank bag or whatever that it was that was originally in and that Bank bag flowed down the river and then it opened up and read a few of the bills so a few of the little piles of bills floated out or came out of it and so you get these little clusters of bills that are just a little bit everywhere throughout the forest of the gigantic wilderness of Washington State you know then you're not gonna find anything else necessarily if you just combed that one little area where those those yeah bills happen to see I don't know and if if they were if they were not too long before in the bag together then that could have preserved right maybe maybe being in the water or something preserved the rubber bands or maybe I don't know but the bills themselves were like in horrible condition yeah they were falling apart and unusable but so I don't know I don't know how the bills got there I don't know why I was so far away from the desk the area that it was supposedly would have landed in that's another thing they never found a body so or the chute that he left with yeah which is really weird right and the chute is much much easier to see than some bills unless he never opened it jumped out in the middle of a winter rainstorm that's true yeah in the middle of the night what the bills do tell us is that something did not work out for the guy doesn't have yeah yeah because first of all why would he decide to just give up a chunk of his money by going back to some random spot in the middle of the forest and burying it and hoping an eight-year-old kid will just happen along to find it and dig it out yes I mean the chances of somebody finding it are just so so small I mean they only found it because they were they they went camping and they found this beach and they wanted to dig out a fire pit and I mean the chances that someone would dig directly directly where you're hiding money to be found yeah I do I do like the idea that they really just returned the damaged bills and they kept the other bills gonna day we're still in pretty good shape Cooper getting rid of his garbage I was watching these like videos and stuff in little documentaries about DB Cooper's they kept talking about the money never going back into circulation so they know it was never used mm-hmm and I'm just wondering how often does money necessarily go back to a control where the where the serial numbers on it would be logged because it seems to me a lot of money that goes out into circulation could end up for decades just staying quote-unquote in circulation in somebody's safe well sure in in in a particular network of under under the table kind of commerce you know like it's easy for him to just use the two hundred thousand dollars in the underground you know just for nefarious purposes right like nobody ever heard no money laundering or yeah exactly you could have wondered the money to the Cayman Islands and just lived like a king if he survived right but like like you were mentioning before he jumped out of the plane in the middle of the night in November during terrible with weather and horrible visibility first of all why would he pick that timeframe for pulling off his plan the the Thanksgiving long weekend right yeah you're thinking it's just like he had some time I was just remarking on the fact that it was the things but like it's one of the hypotheses about why he did that to throw off the whole missing persons thing right like if he happened to not survive and well no actually he disappeared and nobody phoned in a missing-persons report so that's probably the timeframe of doing it then would tend to leave me tell ya it would lend itself to that kind of kind of logic but what I'm saying is his plan involves him landing in some random spot in the middle of the gigantic wilderness of Washington right and so he's gotta know that he's gonna have to survive and make his way through that wilderness until he finds a road or something right and he jumped out in a suit and talked well exactly and most first loafers yeah what kind of evidence is there that it was well planted that's just it like some people think that this guy had to have been a genius to pull this off but it seems like a lot of the story just points to him not being economist bumbling into actually getting the thousand dollars but then you know you know like at the back of his mind during this whole thing he could have been thinking holy crap I'm pulling was all as soon as he drops out the back the the stairs of the back of the plane sucked out like oh I did not think the woman looks at the no leader just said I need to pee and I'm shy or something nothing to do with he's like you know what I'm gonna find and rob this place kind of thing just makes it up felt spontaneously famous famous the eyewitnesses described him this being calm and polite during the entire the entire thing he looked professional in what he was doing he didn't look like a like a $2.00 a criminal or whatever yeah to some extent it seems he didn't know something about flying because of the instructions he gave them for the second flight when that entity how would go up and said okay I need you guys to keep the landing gear down have the flaps fifteen degree angle and then those 10,000 feet oh yeah so he didn't know stuff about maybe maybe he did like the 1971 equivalent of a quick google library you know things to do to slow down a plane you know that and he he also recognized the typography by sight alone and at one point OD yeah like he looked out and looked he looked out a window and he's like that looks like Tacoma Washington and it was just fine like he I bawled it and determined where they were so which brings me actually back to what you had said about the money that was found you said it was found outside of the zone yet the drop zone quote-unquote right that they thought was most likely but at the same time they also said that they were actually searching an area that involved four different states so what's what's then what's the greater four state zone versus that small man it's a particular drivers the fact my statement is there some confusion though about where he actually was yeah I sort of thing cuz he did take him off course right completely off course it you know well yeah from Seattle to what they've refueled in Seattle he instructed them to fly below 10,000 feet and set course for Mexico City okay and he jumps somewhere between Seattle and Reno Nevada so I don't know why he chose Mexico City as it as a like a Destin it was to throw them off or like what was the reasoning behind that I've no idea probably I mean I mean if he's jumping out right away after they they fly off like I guess he jumped out like a half-hour or something yeah they they took off so that's like shortly off after the ascent enough he actually hit your your 10,000 right feet roof or whatever and so he wants to jump out near Washington which is right near the Canadian border right I'm thinking he tells them oh I'm gonna tell them I'm go to Mexico City and I'm directionless some kind of like 1940s cartoon speaking of the Canadian border there's another theory that suggests that he was in fact Canadian yeah because of the name Dan Cooper which matched a comic book that was only circulated in Belgium in Canada and it was exclusively in French and the protagonist of this comic book was a he I think it was a pilot or something my Dan Cooper comic was Danny printed in print and French and yeah his own president in French in Belgium and in Canada oh well there you go why did you have to know I just thought it was because I I just knew about the comic being Canadian Canadian or whatever but I didn't know that it was only pretending French and yeah find that weird since the name of it is let's pronounce French though okay don't go don't go back then it's all done and yeah so they just they describe him as having no particular accent in his speech right right he was well-spoken he had an intelligent vocabulary and didn't have yeah I said all of that you don't have to the – you know regular American folk of 1971 is that he didn't have a ridiculous foreigner accent yeah that's all that means I don't have an accent she spoke American I don't buy this whatsoever mainly because the only two pieces of evidence to back it up evidence to back it up are the comic book idea and the fact that he didn't have an accent oh yeah the other piece was that he asked for the $20 $200,000 in negotiable American currency which quote-unquote no American would have asked for so he must have been Canadian like what Canadian let's use the phrase like that's a super common Canadian phrase negotiable American currency double double and I will pay you in negotiable Canadian currency here's your negotiable changed well I I like hearing about the plan with the things that were actually a success with him sort of things so is there is there more little tidbits looking or things that he try it was there anything that he tried to put at the plate didn't work out or anything like that nobody pulled it off he seemed to set forth with did succeed yeah yeah it did succeed but the funny thing is is that he starts instead of starting off with with the resources you need it's like his plan involves him getting like why he wouldn't show up on the plane with a duffel bag with a bag of his own parachute like why would he like be counting on somebody else to pack a parachute for her sheets you want a fork you want it front and back into backups I think something like that well he what I heard was that what he asked for was two shoots and two that was two years or two reserves yeah right so so so so when he says two shoots he means like the backpack shoots and reserves means the ones that you stick on your belly that are like a backup ship that the emergency chutes yeah there's there's a weird back and forth between he must have been an expert like paratrooper or whatever and he he was a idiot because first of all he asked for the the two shoots in the backups tends to lend itself to the expert notion but then the chutes that he got one of them was a training chute that was sewn shut and didn't open but he selected that one as his backup anyway so it was so much shot it was some wouldn't yeah we deploy it's a training machine right so he picks that one as well as the non steerable military parachute yeah you'd think if he were an expert he would have chosen a chute that he could steer away from a pointing like a pointed treatise he seems to okay he seems to have no knowledge of how chutes work what he gets but that's the more things right because like if I can you read in a book yeah oh there's there's their chutes and then there's reserves that are ask for it or ask for that it doesn't check the chutes and doesn't pick the wound I can steer him out of danger I don't know how evident it is that it's not a functioning chute and stuff like that you know and it's yeah you're saying it's sewn up I mean it sounds like it's evident but I really don't know I don't know to think about that's true and and that that would kind of let him off the hook a bit for that cross mistake yeah I understand there was it like there's different choices of chutes on this point and the shoes they planned they landed the plane in Seattle which is at which point he exchanged the passengers all 36 of them for the sheets and the money yeah so some guy in plain clothes brat brought the stuff up to the plane floor right now it looks a lot of the flight attendants brought it into the plane and then adapt my mother took off again he made us aware okay so if he has any knowledge of shoots I'm thinking he's choosing the one he's most familiar with so what kind of shoots did he choose he chose a military parachute that could not be steered surprise but it was a home but that was the older of the two and the other one that could be steered was a newer model that he might not be familiar with if he were in the military and we're familiar with suits because he had done some rent training involving parachuting yes one theory goes he may have been a paratrooper in Vietnam right because of his quote/unquote knowledge of parachutes and what it's alright he could have just had some general you know air knowledge from war stuff you know he was just he was just well spoken you know he seemed smart maybe maybe the damn comics talk about reserved chutes and so he pulled off the greatest hijacking in US history by reading a couple of comic books I always find watching these that these true-crime type shows like unsolved mysteries or whatever I like to write crime ones the most disturbing runs this part where that the plan doesn't seem to be very thought-out and then I just work out or they don't work out and they just end up killing people or whatever you know it doesn't seem like many of these plans are worked out for you right like criminals do not seem very smart yeah in most cases if he got away with it then yes it worked out but if he died on the way down definitely didn't admit it's a mystery I guess as there is his greatest success because his heap becomes this link shortener cat success story sort of thing we don't know he's he is kind of alive still the others many other because we don't know maybe but the other thing about the argument you were just making before about things just not working out that goes both ways that actually goes for the investigators right for for law enforcement to they they don't every investigation they do doesn't go off without a hitch it's it's not it's not like every case they investigate actually comes out by pinning the the right the right guy when it's not a yeah right right when it's not a cop red-handed kind of situation I read you know I just wouldn't hear about the success stories as so much what we're saying why are you only hear about these stories is the thing but you know who knows what the split is 50/50 or even that good yeah so what comes out of this whole mysterious DB cooper legend is like the conspiracy theories that that the FBI is embarrassed by the fact that I was able to to solve this case so so they're trying to suppress it and they're trying to one of them one of those theories goes something along the lines of it was it was set up by the FBI to get rid of a CIA operative at some point like DB cooper was an operative that they just wanted to make a disappear that's like one of the more recent people who have been proposed to be right Cooper right yeah they published a book recently yeah or something and and and basically this publishing house was kind of hitting their launch or something on this one DB cooper something like that it seems like it just seems like complete speculation I haven't read the book so I have glad doesn't speaking offhandedly but I don't how would you determine that like how would you go about you know demonstrating that that this theory is accurate yeah so I mean it seemed like the the biggest part of the evidence that they have these recorded conversations between this this this guy who was a parent apparently some CIA operative at some point in his life and his buddy he at some point and some other point in his life he decided okay so that's the thing like there have been so many DB cooper confessions through the hours and the people have had they've confessed on their deathbed to their wife or whatever they know sentinels to know that actually happened it happened to like a hammer the guys name but he on his deathbed he told his wife I have a secret to tell you I'm DV Cooper and then he died like to me as the people who do past life regressions yeah all for some reason seem to be Cleopatra those are just the past lives you remember you just don't remember the other yeah but why is everybody bathroom everyone's everyone yeah I forgot there have been letters sent into yours papers across across the u.s. letters to the FBI all of them claiming to be DB cooper and none of them there's apparently hundreds of people were how would you be able to how would you be able to prove it them really I guess you could have the bills and be like hero yeah bills right thing how else could you do it yeah we can't go by memory and witness or anything like that you know the only evidence that I heard about is just people talking a good game that's what the that's what the evidence amounts to I like it doesn't seem like there's any actual physical evidence that says oh you are definitely the guy here's the other hundred and ninety five thousand dollars here's you know here's a here's the briefcase I use and the ball my knee yeah name is just because that came out the day after the hijacking Cooper in the investigation by just looking in the phone book for anyone in the area come from the reporters hearing about this guy that was arrested that happened to be called DB cooper and so they just said oh so DB Cooper's was just referring to himself as anything Jerry call yourself damn damn he just called him something the name ticket is Dan Cooper okay yeah so they'd have to give your name apparently you didn't have to actually give right right so that's a huge honour to say I'm Jon Snow like you said if you had the bomb on him he didn't pack parachutes so it was half prepared for this job I guess some people have tried to point to his cleverness by saying that so he asked for four parachutes so that they wouldn't know whether he meant those shoots just for himself or for accomplice the entire crew right so that they so that he could make sure that they wouldn't sabotage the shoot yes for in the hopes that he would just he would just shoot yeah let's talk about the the evidence and then the investigation so the evidence that was left on the plane consisted of a JCPenney clip-on tie and a bunch of cigarettes plus some fingerprints it gives you a sense of pretend or salesman this or you know it's just an image here it's not it's not the real deal a facade where maybe clip-on ties were yeah what year was this 1971 it's anyone yeah that is kind of the heyday of the clip-on like people would have been wearing clip-ons like any other tie okay yeah so yeah let's let's talk about that time so clip one that's good they found some DNA evidence on it but it was they couldn't really do anything with it because there's no there's no way to prove this the beli DNA on it actually belonged to him right and also that they didn't have they didn't keep lik DNA samples yeah and they certainly didn't have the the mechanisms to share DNA if they did get some DNA right they from one state to the next no one knew about it like so the DNA thing wait he's here to get away with crimes back in the day yeah sound like said DNA evidence kind of a bust but yet they did find more recently were some microscopic particles of different metals one of them being titanium yeah and a couple of other rare earth metals like bismuth or whatever okay that at the time were only used at the Boeing plant on their supersonic project so the idea is that he must have been an employee at Boeing and the fact that he wore the tie would suggest I was either an engineer or a project manager because those were the only two types of people to wear ties in that particular facility that's that's me and that's why he would have the knowledge to ask for that particular model of plane to to be to know about the way the Backstairs go yeah yeah but it seems to me if he were either an engineer or a manager at Boeing why don't just you know sit that one out you know you've got your retirement all set up for it you're in you're a Boeing you've got a really good job like you can retire peacefully unless you had been laid off or something unless yeah so I don't know I mean and you're saying that they found these medals or whatever on the seat or in the area around all the time I'm the time is the high itself yeah and but I mean how many people have handled that tie in the 50 years since then well they were embedded in the MVP and the fibers and they're also microscopic so it's pretty hard to get specific with those mats it is specific which is why they're pointing at the Boeing thing because at that time only that type of industry was using those types of metals there like titanium was really really rare of the seventies for one thing so is bismuth and whatever the other one else was so they also found some trace elements of different chemicals on there which might suggest that I got we could worked in a chemical or metal treatment plant so if they wanted to narrow their search a little bit they could start with those and go from there well yeah it sounds like it but the the file was closed in 2016 after 45 years the investigation being on but just not interested anymore like it's costing them more at this point by the time they could I think by 2011 or something the case filed was 40 feet tall allegedly there was just so much I mean this was back in the days of tall files right they were getting people with tall plants and scary people with tall file to notes on the telephone so I found that interesting I think of all the really cool things that's the one piece of physical evidence actually in their scope to think that this this person whoever he was at least passed through decimal areas or things yeah regularly came into contact with him that type read an Internet to have it embedded in his time one thing that I found frustrating is that in most of the like main media documentary is about DB cooper that I saw they always go on to mention this this one particular other suspect that had done like a copycat oh yeah that guy but they were they were like there were like eight of them or something who did copycat hijackings or skyjacking in a year following DB cooper and there's this one in particular that they keep going that they keep mentioning and all of the documentaries is treason what likely guy who I think the reason why they keep going back to that guy is because it was virtually identical to what Cooper did and he also got away with it up until the economy yeah yeah until he didn't he got away with it got caught escaped from jail then died in a police shootout yeah yeah man that sauce so when he had he I mean all the details were over the public that's where they not at this point about see that's the thing with plates I'm not sure but I would assume so just based on the time for him so that's the thing like this guy he's not even the first to the copycats following the DB cooper incident he does his thing in April while there was already – in January I think and and I think one or two others before this guy in in April so by that time in April that like like the the DB cooper incident wasn't a secret like the media was there that very same day asking the crew questions and you know it was a big story so yeah a lot of details that were already right out there and so most of the details that they that they say match are important times when are reported details it's not like he he he confirmed that only he could be the guy because he was doing stuff that only DB cooper and yeah and that's the counter-argument ahead to what I was just saying right there like it they point they point back to this guy because it's virtually identical yeah but it was it's personal identical because yeah use the copycat and all those details were readily available yeah yeah it was a how-to manual basically yeah I think the only reason why they why this guy sticks as being the one that everybody wants to say oh but he was the real one and because they caught him no it's because is it's because for a time he actually did manage to pull it off unten he was caught is he yeah but there's some but but there again the reason why he was caught is because is is directly because of submit that those are major differences with the DB cooper thing for example he left his fingerprints on like a magazine and stuff that was flipping through well DB Cooper didn't leave any this guy was literally found right off the fingerprints so you know there's things that are kind of bumbling about yeah plus the other guy demanded $500,000 which is a half a million 1/2 million yeah there's no photographic evidence of them or anything like that oh we didn't mention is that like like I think the the the big thing that everybody thinks about as soon as they as soon as you hear DB cooper if you know if you've if you've been told about the story at all or or seen about the story at all is the composite sketch right so there were a few composite sketches that were made and like what one would the guys just the past face and the Black Tie white shirt black jacket clean-cut the clean combed hair and and and clean shaven face and the other one is with the sunglasses right so so it's like it's like a kind of kind of like a slick James Bondy kind of everyman kind of image but a clean cut that people are able to project a lot of on yeah it's kind of a generic yeah he's kind of a pasta to kind of kind of thing that anybody can can sort of relate to by projecting what they want on to it so that's why it sticks ICS you yeah it struck a chord a lot of people who may have matched the physicals like they had a hundreds well almost anybody you can think of can make themselves match that right match those sketches right because it's such a like bland kind of middle-aged white guy you know right who's neither fat nor overly skinny he's super tall or super short he's like the definition just right the definition of the most average she's painfully average so what is it about the DB cooper mystery do you guys think that that's so enticing to people it's so popular like why is it stuck in popular culture for all these years well it's yeah I think that also yes it's left open the fact that you get this iconic image right yeah does that in combination yeah with the image thing the everyman thing it's got a bit of a Robin Hood miss to it you know like it's nervous or her baby maybe not so much Robin Hood as as Jesse James you know like like like instead of the instead of a train robber he's robbing a plain red but he's definitely a crook he's not he's not stealing to give to the poor there he's just a guy that's stealing he's just he's doing it in a super action movie kind of way James Bondish yeah do you guys know there's a there's a Cooper convention every year where it's called Cooper Cohen and it's important Cooper coffee yeah you actually have Cooper common never everybody shows up for the clip on time they have they bring in a panel of experts and they all discuss the various theories if you have like contests like who wore the clip on [Laughter] cosplaying seriously I don't know I think it'd be I think that's interesting that's it's so popular that they have their own convention yeah now I don't imagine it to anything like comic-con or whatever so I heard somewhere I am I mentioned this to one of you guys or both of you but I heard somewhere that they had based the agent Cooper in Twin Peaks character right or at least his look I'm not sure if I heard that I think I might have heard that directly from what's the actor's name I don't think I'd the guy that plays agent Cooper in Twin Peaks and Jed no no play somewhat deep as I look like something mcLaughlin mcLaughlin yeah some Kyle MacLachlan yeah so I think I sign generic I think that's an interview with him where he mentioned it I'm not sure if I can't remember whether he was saying that he had seen or known something about DB cooper and decided to to to propose that as a look for the character or whether it was he was his character was written that way Cooper was also a recurring character on Prison Break oh yeah I never followed that's right I've ever watched like I just I got super into it recently oh yeah it sucks you in there did it did it pay any reference to that character was he sort of a tall dark handsome character well he was he was in prison like in the first season and for the longest time it he denied it but eventually yeah yeah it's me DB cooper I did it and he shows one of the bills and serial number matches you know he was DB cooper he leads the gang to to like where he buried the money it's under the silo in some place in Washington state roads why would you steal money only to bury it and forget it you got arrested that's just gonna suggest then that yeah another reason would be that he he may have left treasure it becomes like a treasure hunt okay that's another reason it'sit's almost equal had to do right like a pirate legend yeah not only got away let's go into the woods and try and find B B's right hatch it becomes like a lottery right a human lottery come find me if you do you get my treasure yeah yeah yeah super popular in the pop culture like so many books have been written about this there's the the personal break connection and there's the Twin Peaks connection DB cooper is pretty ubiquitous in the minds of people that have been since all of this happened and I think one of the reasons is because he seemingly pulled it off right yeah if he doesn't die and he pulled it off yeah he pulled off the appearance of it at least yeah he pulled off the appearance let's go with that he definitely pulled off the appearance of having successfully okay like and if that's a really elaborate way to commit suicide that's pretty that's pretty pretty yeah thanks for that leave leave like a legend behind when you commit suicide like as if you're doing some I will become indifferent and a little bit kinda I mean just never opens up the chute one of the things I heard they me offer Boeing is another thing I heard was from the stewardess who apparently had asked him like why are you so mad at this airline or whatever and he goes oh I'm not mad at the airline I'm just mad it was the Hulk I'm just like a rebel without a cause he's not rebelling against some particular body he's just rebelling I'm not angry as the airline I'm just angry puts on his sunglasses no it's a pop culture talked about that talking about the yeah let's go back to the evidence a little bit because right so there's this hello okay no not really but he was that see that's the thing that makes people think that he planned this out really meticulously because he find very very little evidence right aside from the clip-on tie and the cigarette butts there's nothing nothing else so people are like wow you must have planned that out yeah and that's another one of those things where it like it expects a kind of perfection in the the forensic science and and the investigators are in the amount of evidence that you think should be available or findable and like this there's things about it like the fact that like the guy was drinking from a glass he was drinking bourbon no this was in the days before DNA testing and that sort of yeah but they had a process fingerprint they had had fingerprint technology for at least a hundred years yet like like it's the late 18-hundreds right where they yeah they start using fingerprint technology so that's not new well I mean all of that CSI stuff the really high-tech stuff really only became popular after OJ yeah like it's really really after all DNA stuff from a I'm talking like the high tech like CSI laboratory stuff that they do and in like a couple more ago mr. Singh months I'm not sure about so DNA stuff for sure but other forensic techniques and technology or were they I know like in the 70s is when they really started on file to see her alive behavioral psychology with profiling yeah if you've watched that manhunt understanding where the decisions was was was sort of big into trying to tell people how to live kind of thing you know like it was it was big into the dystopian novels trying to show people how to really live so I'm showing you the contrast and stuff like that basing this on her in the seven years I think culturally it was like that but then there was also there was also like a movement in the 70s coming out of the the liberal movements of the 60s right like people bucking against the what society has evolved to be you know soso society has evolved to be what you just described but there are like intellectual kind of movements to be about post-modernism and stuff and deconstructing that kind of everything fell apart in the seventies is what we're getting at here yeah so it's like this golden era yet also the collapse as well as me mmm-hmm it's good 70s this lapse of normal fabric in the United States it's gonna try a Rush Limbaugh pressure decide let's go to it kids are like this rush to them did I just date myself yeah yeah well I mean we're talking about DB cooper that's dating ourselves yeah yeah I'm sure there's a lot of there's a lot of young people now that don't know about DB Cooper I mean he has been sort of a constant recurrence in pop culture throughout the years he sort of he sort of gets pulled back into pop culture by someone who remembers him and figures figures hey now's the time we haven't heard about this guy for a while tonight that scientist I can be the guy to get the likes if today that's real wakening the myth of DB cooper for the lights yeah but I I kind of like the idea that it's it's just like a modern legend yeah it's it's a he's like Bigfoot yeah yeah it's like it's like a modern-day folktale kind of thing yep we've seen just kind of like it definitely has the telling is it one you know this guy who robbed a plane and vanished into thin air you know how is that not appealing yeah it's a cool story yeah this whole thing is I mean there's a fantasy that everybody has just getting getting rich from by taking in one shot like right and getting away with a pile of money living out of not getting away with it yeah or something so let's assume he did get away with it and like you believed right he survived the fall okay I managed to somehow stash the parachute somewhere because it's not gonna take it with them right Debbie yeah whoa this is all speculation at this point but what what do you think where do you think it would have gone like it's in the wilderness now between Reno and Seattle it's the middle of well it's almost when it's middle of November he's got his trench coat his loafers on where would he have gone what what are you bum the truth is once you get anywhere can get everywhere eventually like it just takes some time and some effort or anything yeah how many homeless people are there wandering around the u.s. right like I I'm I'm almost I'm almost skeptical that that that that he would be noticed at all like he could just as soon as he lands if he lands near a road he could just walk anywhere and see that's nobody people speculated he didn't that's what the reason why he wore the super anti is because he would have looked more presentable if he'd been found at the side of the road right trying to hitch a ride but two hundred thousand dollars in this but he undercuts that by by removing his pie in in that in that like kind of movie magic kind of fashion like as if he's like pulling the fake mustache off and it gives it a feel of his left work and had a bad day alright here we go the whole bourbon thing at the beginning of the story kind of reminds me of that there's something also about like about bourbon drinkers that for some reason people think is more cool than some other kind of drink I don't know do you know have you do that have you guys gotten this impression that some people think it's cooler when drinkers yeah that's more debonair yeah yeah that's what I was gonna say I was looking for butter dip bourbon you know that's a man's drink oh and I who drinks bourbon and smokes she's the mall bro man yeah I've never actually loved never that like Hemingway probably drank bourbon probably you know yeah the man's man thing that's it yeah Sammis another cool point in DB Cooper's favor yeah it's based on a Don Draper from Mad Men who decided exactly that's it I think that adds did the mystique right his head is tall dark and handsome as you know yeah the whole aesthetic of the of the entire story is just it is just like as if it was like that kind of lifestyle design that's aimed in an advertisement at a particular demographic there's so many shows that can end in a really awesome way by just declaring IMDB The Sopranos or whatever fade to black thing I'm DB Huber what is ball x for $200,000 what is that about – anyway in today's curve about a million in some was pretty significant from the time yeah yeah not too significant like it was it was the amount that he it makes you an instant millionaire in 1971 but not like not like an unreasonable millionaire 1 million the legend Danka pass done dog but he does best I wonder if you can still get those comics I don't know I we can do look check it out and maybe I border from that Amazon yes so what do you think I'm putting it into that okay what do you guys think a lot of it I think he's dead I think he just you just got sucked out of the plane and plugged into his doing plummeted to his death and he's just in the middle of a giant forest and that's why skins that's why a couple of crews of a few dozen people who are real keen to like I I just don't get the idea that you think it's likely that you're gonna find someone in the middle is Duke eating the party's parachute in a tree for forty five years yeah that image though just is just hilarious just well another thing is that as that plane was going there were actually two Jets military jets are scrambled that were following him it's the only way they would have seen him is if he had if he had deployed the chute and they never saw yeah they said they never saw a thing so so they wouldn't have seen they they probably wouldn't have seen him in the dark and in the rain if he if he just dope out the plane and never managed to open up a big right a big shoot yeah cuz again weather conditions and visibility worst yeah so what do you think we'll ever get well I mean it doesn't I mean really I don't know I like the idea of keeping that mystery alive but my hunch is that you didn't survive I don't think it seems a great plan dad thing like it just seems unrealistic this is this how would he get anywhere afterwards like he's in the middle of the wilderness the thing that always shocks me when I'm flying over North America is even though we're like it's like the modern age and you know there's all kinds of urbanization and pollution everywhere yeah but at the same time when you're flying over everything it's what's surprising is how is how little signs of humans yeah that's our in a lot of places how a lot of it is just friggin like butt nowhere this yeah it's just green yes yeah just trees and hills and nothing it's possible he survived it's it's possible he survived but but if he did survive there's also a not insignificant chance that he might have just been lost in the forest the evidence points to if he survived he did not survive with the money because they yeah having deteriorated I think that's a huge piece of evidence that he didn't think we did not get anything with it I would tend to hear that too like cuz why would you give them like why would you drop any of your money that's why you tried to divest himself of the whole thing and wanted to just really disappear and get rid of the marked mercerized I wonder if maybe he's watching the news and his sees he sees oh right they mention we of course cataloged all the numbers on the bills this all adds up to a lottery planned out you know it sounds like it was it was it was like a spunky yes it was yeah right like like the guy was smoking to do with his buddy you know PB was like that's brilliant man so they came up with just enough to look brilliant to a couple of stoners but no they went a little too far yeah so as for me I don't know if he did survive the fall mmm maybe you got eaten by a bear in the wilderness and that's why you never found a body well in terms of the survivor we're talking about the whole thing even if he landed where they're breaking those legs and then from tree and not getting jabbed in the face by branches and like that like yeah he still has to get somewhere I still let's just survive like I don't I don't know I team that him finding the money is the greatest evidence of him not surviving at least the greatest evidence of the plan didn't work out the way he wanted it to for sure final thoughts on the DB goober mystery I mean hey have fun with the deathbed confessions and stuff yeah I guess I guess just have fun with it as as a modern folklore well how old would he have been back then he was 30 describes missin his mid-forties yeah yeah yes it'd be you know old at this point yeah old final thoughts DB Cooper it's my man as for myself yeah it's a cool modern folk tales I to be creative kids it's a really it's a fun story yeah when you when you yeah all aspects of it are just like oh my god does this happen this is a real thing that actually happened and it persists in modern culture it's definitely more possible today like because you think you could land with like a GPS tracker so that so that okay right away you when you land you can orient your survival would be greater but the element of being caught there's also enhanced is more you probably get available you can yep survive with the GPS right the actual hijacking of the plane oh that's right it wouldn't be able to get on a plane with a briefcase full of something and then land get the money and take off again you know if he's a green beret sort of thing then he's he's easily surviving that is he not that could be oh you know what like this is like at the tail end of a 10-year war in Vietnam which involves a draft so a lot of young men over that decade were trained in awful wilderness crash yeah so there's a real short list of people who actually could know something about what they're doing in the woods and we don't know what he had on his person in his suit pocket so you could have had a compass in there not a shooter had a compass could have had a Swiss Army knife or something you know person look at matters or something yeah well he smoked yeah oh he must have had a lighter what's he not violent with the crew no he was know how to say it was all just word like hey I'm hijacking it like pretty much like dude was the bomb right he had a bomb yeah wasn't that Jesse James's stick to that he was kind of like a gentleman robber yeah he was like all right ladies and gentlemen sorry to interrupt your day but this is a he's a jackass but man was he nice so there's like a romantic thing about the polite the scoundrel that that doesn't mean you harm but is gonna get what he wants to take he's hot silver yeah I'm gonna go with you as Rambo and he survives and he's living with his his his love there's something more to something there's something more more wondrous about conclusion to that taking taking that position on it well I I think that he probably just splattered on the ground or got impaled on a branch but that's like kind of a cynical kind of end of story it just ends there yeah that would be a yeah I don't know not really because we never find out so becomes that tree falling in the forest that we didn't know we're writers right so he still becomes this man falls in the forest and does he have $200,000 victus yeah my final thought cool story bro it's an awesome folktale like I said you know and I I want that romantic ending to the story I want him to have survived and is now living on some Island on his gold in his golden years with a pile of cash just live in the dream on the other hand who knows this has been a critical juncture in episode 62 mark it's a lot of episodes I'm still luck I'm still oh teak the little blue dandy beef as always thanks for listening and until next time keep thinking critically

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