Best Practices for Addressing Challenges in Teaching Ethics

and we so appreciate Greg saddle are being here to help us figure out what we need to be doing better in teaching ethics and so the focus of today's workshop will be on challenges and teaching ethics with some pointers on how to do it better so I'll turn it over to Greg okay so I know about half of you I think some of you had Elsa was just some introductions and I'm in philosophy we don't have a program in philosophy so i'm actually a department of government history over in jks a campus across the tracks I know some of you through committees or through different workshops that we've done one of my areas of specialization is ethics and I've taught ethics classes at five different institutions including business out of exit professionals and part of why we push this workshop together was on something particular in mind there's certain issues or problems that keep coming up over and over again teach ethics and so we wanted to work on that so before we do anything more you want to go around the room and everybody tell me you know your name yeah what area you don't have to do you mean finance Cathy Gorley management romneya Laguna accounting we're who we need to lure of ethics Lawrence we see our next president sleazier there that dark and science goes Herschel mark because I Robot mis-d why am I add string of economics Tyrion son economics Don Wilson management it's really actually really good presentation okay what I'm going to try to get done in this workshop it's got some pretty limited aims sort of like the last workshop we're going to videotape this one put it into the institutional channel so if you have any things that were clear on we can always go over it later on them I want to set out some of the common problems and questions and challenges that instructors encounter when they're bringing ethics into the curriculum and in order to get a handle on that you want to actually look at why these arise and there's different factors that identify with that the other goal that I have is to give you sort of a toolbox to equip you with some best practices and some of these are coming from pedagogical literature on teaching ethics but a lot of us is actually just coming from years of teaching ethics and running into the same student questions concerns problems over and over again oftentimes seeming to come out of left field but after a while you know scanners and you know when we get together at conferences we philosophers while confer with each other and start commiserating and it turns out we all have the same sort of basic issues coming up and I don't presume that any of you are professional habit since I know actually so we have a very strong background some talk with before but this workshop doesn't actually presume that you have that sort of background just just some interest in bringing it into your curriculum here at FSU we have some real challenges what would we like to see our students come these are some of the things that came out of the work that we've been doing collaborating between business faculty and philosophy faculty for your accreditation these are some of the things that you want students people do develop understanding of rudiments theories they don't have to be writing 20 page papers on contour anything like that but they do need to know some rudiments of save deontological ethics develop abilities to actually apply the ethical theories it's not enough just to know what they are they have to apply them and the exercises that we've designed also be able to look at things for more than one point of view there's a big challenge for our students as I think all we know develop habits providing explanation another thing they're students for the most part at least I and I teach critical thinking so I get the students before they come to you in danger most of our students are totally unequipped for providing explanations for why they're taking the positions that you can we also train them to do that we have to do that in ethics as well so we have to teach them how to actually say why something is right or wrong or them that it's important to do something there's a further goal but this is one that we sort of slipped in and I think all of you you know are aligned with this whole moral development you want to see our students become better people but that's sort of by-product it's you know I think what we'd really like to see is that they actually use the language effectively apply it to cases and then if they happen to become better people that's great so where are our students going to learn this here's why it's such a big challenge enough is here we don't have a general ethic spots most universities have some sort of general ethics class that's taught by the philosophy department as part of the core curriculum it's a matter of fact most religious schools it's a required class we don't have that we do have an ethics class that gets taught every semester as an online class there are a few students actually take it so you can't count on any of your students having had a class and efforts currently as far as I understand there is no business ethics class although you could develop on it and fairly easily there is a core learning outcome of ethics and civic engagement but what precisely that is they're still in the process of defining them and how that's going to be applied to specific classes they haven't nailed that down like that you know later years it might it might be a lot more consistent so where are your students going to get any sort of teaching about ethics it's going to be in your classes they don't get it in your classes you can't count on it happening anywhere else and you can infuse it into the business curriculum not just at the matok components but when it arrives you've all I think you have discussions where some sort of ethical issue comes up out of the blue yeah and then you start having to address maybe maybe some of you down but this is this pretty frequent it happens in all sorts of classes not just class is on it thanks not just sections dealing with knowing how to turn those into useful teachable moments is is really key one of the things I'm having to do right now can you go pencils around I've got some surveys that I'd like you to fill out in part because I want to find out what people are comfortable with and what they're not comfortable with and also there's two sides one is sort of a standard rating kind of thing the other is asking you for specific problems challenges issues that come up when you end up talking about ethics or things that you worry about because I've set this up to talk about a few of them but I'd also like to be able to review the ones that you guys have maybe there's some that I just didn't you know for see that that really come up often for you guys well you guys are doing that I actually have three locations from some classic Greek philosophers who get a lot of work on ethics our sort of part they're part of the main curriculum if we're doing it philosophy and each one emphasizes a certain point Aristotle in politics he says how our speech is intended to set forth the useful and harmful and therefore likewise the just and the unjust and it is a characteristic of the human being that he or she alone as any sense of good or evil just and unjust and of other moral qualities and the association of living beings who Shiva these makes a family in the state so these moral values that we hold it you know we talk about good bad just unjust and all the others you know which Aristotle also includes no hole and Noble or beautiful and other all these sort of things bring us together that's part of what binds us together in communities that's one side of values play go brings out another side that Aristotle also knew well this is this is from one of his test Socrates asks what differences are there which cannot be thus decided which make us angry and send us at enmity with with one another matters of difference are notices the same issues the just and the unjust good and evil honorable and dishonor are not these the points about what's been different about which when we are unable satisfactorily to the side of differences you and I and all of us floral when we do a lot of our disagreements the basis of them are over ethics over issues of morality that's the things that we get the most heat in the bath and you can count on your students likewise to do that then finally I have epic titas this is from his discourses he says here's the beginning of philosophy a perception of the disagreement of man with one and then created the claws of the disagreement the condemnation of mistrust of that which only seems at a certain investigation of that which seems whether it seems rightly in a discovery of some sort of rule so you know what does it that we philosophers do I think it's actually a good definition we started out looking at different people's views on things and then we try to see you know are there any good reasons to hold them philosophy isn't just what manages to make it into the cannon there's also sort of an activity and you end up doing this if you're teaching ethics in your classes you're not necessarily professional philosophers although somebody actually gives us a strong background philosophy but you're doing philosophy you're doing it in an applied way and what are you doing it with dealing with these these moral values so one of the sort of common problems and challenges that arise in classes these are the ones that I fic and again those surveys that I've sums around that so I can actually get some feedback on the ones that you guys would see because my experience may not of course monitors exactly these are the ones that I've identified and that I see it also might my peers and philosophy levels so there are some issues that arise from students emotions attitudes and experiences and we'll talk about those in a woman there's certain standpoints that stand in the way of doing anything with us there are sort of roadblocks and talk about those our students also are inexperienced in working with multiple as many of them are quite anxious when they have to deal with complex problems or issues there may be more than one solution offered and then when we run into are quite a lot of questions that seem very difficult a problematic answer they're very easy to ask and students will ask in your classes another problem can be lack of the actual common vocabulary or concepts one of the things that we rediscovered once we started sitting down and looking at and is this textbook was a lot of the ethical terminology varies from one text of the next until it arianism everyone's in agreement about that constitutes but what exactly counts as these other different theoretical perspectives it really depends on the textbook and some of them you know pointing their own creator their own terminology that doesn't map on to other peoples doesn't map onto the discipline so what is the result with with these sort of challenges well the class can get off track and that might be one reason to avoid talking books right you you have to cover material just like all the rest of us so the goal is to walk through some of these things and encourage you to bring in more efforts with your element and to do it in a fairly confident way these are my sort of the sort of the list of best practices in a big picture you know these are not yet applied yeah I think this is really great that kind of hits in kind of formal analysis of this stuff hmmm but speaking just for myself I'm very much a do believe that Jonathan hate it has much of this stuff go back he's fundamental argument is that pretty much all ethical judgment archaeal ethical judgment is instinctive and we've got to be talked about this before but that doesn't fit into this workshop right but if that is true it has profound implications how you think about all of it because if all this is ex post facto rationalization yeah how important valuable is well yours regicide yeah first of all the workshop is structured in a certain way so the thought that's another issue that I'm not going to get into second of all that perspective is not held by most ethicists so that's what I hosts I clothes is that what we'll all on we're getting out there okay that is a highly controversial stance within our discipline another so I'm we can talk about that afterwards that's that's fine and I enjoy that conversation but this you know what we're doing here is that a somewhat lower level we're not doing meta ethics so much if you have to teach epics contents and classes this is what I think are the best practices for being able to do a successful one of the one thing that you have to do with any of your classes is understand where your students are coming from understand what the challenges that they're going to feel and face are the empathetic with your students right because there when they get upset in class when it comes to ethics there's some reasons behind it and they have some validity to what they're feeling or thinking but also be very clear but what you're aiming it you're not aiming at attaining agreement you're aiming at them developing and showing you in documentable ways that they understand the concepts that you're presenting them know the terrain where your discussion will occur there's there's some and we're going to go through this some likely objections that students will come up with and I seen these come up semester after semester in ethics classes the other thing is each one of these problem situations can be turned into a genuine teachable moment I know that's some jargon that gets used in an awful lot right what it does fit this you're presented with these challenges and you can either just back off entirely and say well you know we can't address that where it's you know purely individual preference or just a matter of societal mores or you can go into a loop and when you do that you model something for your students the other thing that I have at the very end is not to allow the best to become the enemy of the good if you are teaching ethics you will never work everything out even if you're doing graduate quest and I remember when I was a graduate student in philosophy and we have seminar specifically on effects there are some thing where you're simply not going to attain consensus of everybody that's okay yes your students are further along than where you started out with you've achieved something and that's good so there's there's a tendency towards a bit of perfectionism for for professors so here's the first where where your students actually coming from I think all of you will recognize some of this common emotional responses one thing that we know right off the bat our students are not finished in there deformation they quite often not all that we're what they're feeling until they sold suddenly on them they sometimes have trouble actually giving it a name they sometimes have trouble recognizing it what's going on and other people impulse controls a problem all of this is you know discussed under this rubric of emotional intelligence I think all of you are familiar with that that literature not necessarily committed to it on some sort of fundamental basis here but it's a useful concept lot of our students can be very self-centered in their perspective I think that you're all familiar with this we know what's my grade that's all I care about how do I get out of this class sometimes they can actually be rather narcissistic so that's oh there's a challenge to what are their common emotional responses when they're discussing ethics or any sort of value laden issues fear or anxiety that's pretty kind of right I think you've all seen them anger or indignation or frustration frustration especially when they have to learn material that they may not entirely agree with right off the bat or don't see the utility in shame or guilt that comes up sometimes you might say that's a little strange but we will talk about some examples in a moment the ever-present desire to be seen is right this is investment that that people have which is usually you know something on an emotional basis dismay of sadness when they when they realize I don't know it some of the things that I've been working with might not be true people sometimes get almost depressed over self-satisfaction our pride those students who come in with some sort of very strong moral code quite often feel themselves superior the other students don't notice that before they can also shift into each other beauties that's sort of in the nature of emotions what are some examples well for anxiety when students find out that there's more than one in a way of looking at things ethically some of them become extremely anxious it's as if the world falls apart they want to know what the right answer is and get rid of that anxiety immediately fear your students might be afraid that if you start talking about ethics what are you going to do you're going to judge them or you're going to even worse grade them on the basis of their beliefs or their commitments and they probably suspect that you don't share exactly the same ones as they do so they're going to attribute to you what that you're going to be subjective and treating them poorly what's a common fear anger you've all seen it students become angry and clots yep over very often small things frustration again they would like things to be very simple to be dealt with in ways that can be easily summarized or shame why might a student feel shame well I've seen this happen in ethics classes students sometimes realize oh god and screwing things up for a long time when they're confronted with full-blown put you know ethical theory or in some of your cases if you've got students who have suffered at the hands of other people when they're looking at those cases that may provoke feelings a lot of times victims crochet think about if somebody has been the victim akon and lost money and then you have that as a case study could provoke shame and that can stand in the way of students being able to learn so what's what's a sort of best practices in dealing with with emotions again as long as it's probably things that have occurred to you before that you've done in other settings in dealing with other topics be empathetic you know recognize that the students have their feelings and their son would it would be very clear with them like I said before the key thing in academic settings is not whether we're in agreement or whether we appreciate everything Mo's are effective rather we want something more than I meant to understand students have to it doesn't matter so much how they feel about ethical theories or about cases they have to be able to show us instructors that they actually understand this in a professional setting I think you guys got more leverage with this because of being business professors you can stress that you have to understand and have some control over your emotions right that's that's an important part of professional life you could bring in the notion of emotional intelligence if you want to I think probably saw you do in your classes and you can invite the students to step back and consider what their current emotions are sometimes that can by itself the alerting process for them many of them are not often invited to step back and scrutinize themselves even more important to ask them why they're feeling that I'm not saying I'll turn the class into a psychiatrists couch but invite them on their own step back and figure out why they're doing it because there are reasons why people feel emotions and for students to just get the idea that their emotions are not necessarily and you know controlling them they don't have to feel that there's some sort of things that they could control if they understood the causes that's pretty important and then they all invite them to to reflect on whether they actually do need to express them or act on some of our students seem to think that anytime they feel something they ought to tell everybody you all know that that's not the case right in our culture too there are certain challenges that are facing us just because of the situation that we're in college students come to us and in this country with very very partial backgrounds and ethics that may have learned some sort of moral code from somebody along the way they've probably never given any sort of serious study to ethics in an academic sentence they're also part of a culture in which some things have happened with them here I'm bringing up alstom McIntyre with there's plenty of other philosophers who talked about this situation in Lake modern life we use moral vocabulary and we have that in common so if we replayed oh we can recognize your Plato's talking about we use a lot of the same words we may actually we may actually my selves understand the words that same way that he did but in modern life in our culture there's some huge divides and a lot of those caused by people not even agreeing on what the basic terms mean they use the same horrible Cabul dairy but they use them very different ways so the notion of a right for example highly equivocal motion you actually have to ask somebody what precisely do you mean by a right if you want to start a discussion and they don't have the same conception or right is then you may not have enough common ground to work with them and our students aren't aware of it they don't you know they think a word means a word and that's all there is to it this also gives rise to certain standpoints that that tend to block the road to to ethic and is further complicated again by the fact that within business textbooks and even actually within some philosophy textbooks the vocabulary it gets used in inconsistent ways or people make up new terms you know one of the terms that i came across universalism was used in a way to describe it to to describe any sort of ethics that would say that there are principles that apply to everybody wow that's you know that's not an ethical system that's sort of basic feature of most ethical systems it's not an ethical system by itself but the author taught that as an ethical system so if you have a lot of inconsistency in the terminology that that can be a big problem so what are some of these problematical ethical standpoints these are sort of default standpoints that our students fall into and you guys have all seen these there are easy ways to short circuit thinking or feeling to get out of the situation just to end it end conversations a lot of cliches out there ready made in our culture that that conform to these at all I give you a few examples of those each one of them is something that blocks the road it ends the conversation the conversation that you want to have going on in your class relativism is one example of this we will talk about that in a moment skepticism the notion that nobody can really know anything all comes to ethics if that's the case well then you can't you can't do ethics can sort of a very naive egoism everybody's just after themselves well how do you know how do our students actually know that that's a stance that they could take but why do they take that stance they usually take that stance just to end of the process and emotivism said the ethical theory that really all all that's going on or we have these these feelings about what we want feelings desires and then when we express things like well this is good or that is bad we're just saying I like this or I don't want this and that that's a common stance in our culture so what can we do these can offer us teachable moments and if you teach an ethics class this is what you have to do you usually do these at the beginning of the semester so you to remind your students do you remember when we talked about that back and week too so that you can get yourself back on track first thing to do is realize that your students haven't thought these out they don't really believe this most of them they're they're just saying it and they're just saying it because they haven't been offered anything better there are sort of a default there are easy places to go through their comfortable for them and what we want to do is get them out of that comfort zone and you can point out to students that these are these are inconsistent you know relativism is not consistent yes okay i guess i have a little bit of a problem with his whole approach i guess it seems good you can I great position but if you haven't bought there is helped by at least one or more meet your philosophers that's right and that and that's fine can I talk about that maybe later again that's meta ethics here i'm doing a very practical thing trying to provide some useful things for faculty who are doing at this oh but but if students are stuffing out of a point yeah anis tons that is perfectly consistent with what the best minds have come up with well they're not the best minds well AJ air is not considered the Delhi High pugin heidegger in ethics is not considered the best okay so really almost nobody talks about how lobby notes due to pass yeah but a student doesn't come out and say well I think a motive ism is right because a gar said in a language truth and reality this this and this sooner just comes out as well as just what I feel that's just what you feel they're not doing it because they've actually reasoned it out and found it to be consistent with what song aww I guess my point is that the students are uncomfortable and angry and upset and all that but you don't take him seriously oh that isn't this is actually taking if you take them completely seriously and just have a fair discussion that brings up points and comfort points hey everything is yeah I think you don't think they ever get angry oh they they do yeah you might have a slightly different experience yeah well I've actually taught upper level of ethics classes as well and did not here with another insult Maddox and I these are sort of consistent patterns that come up actually they come up when I have taught classes in other philosophy classes or in religious studies as well any time we started strength and matters of value the same basic problems would come o.o i had a student that was visibly we're talking about it HR you guys may have read about the circumstance where they did a spiritual fitness test oh and there was an atheist that was that had to take that test and he's really made a splash taking it to the court system saying how can you say I'm not spiritually fit to serve in military boy whether that whole discussion came up in HR because we were talking about selection procedure and he was really angry you could see it on his face he didn't say a lot but there was a discussion that took place not being the anchor was definitely there regardless for the rich religious belief in that class I had a bunch of stuff going on about that one thing yeah well I mean you know I've been quite over plato was observing something back in ancient Greece that's there when people don't agree on basic values they get angry and anyway I do think that this is taking the student seriously like I think it went out here one of the things you can do you start working with the students where they are and then you you say well you know these are actual standpoints but they're inconsistent statements and you know for you know for example for an aj air all their great philosophers have pointed out that emotivism is inconsistent that it's unable to take what's going on I think insolvency we did we end up thinking and the coatis be there to set their backgrounds a set of fat will bring it with you know together sacrifice the earlier stage of their life you know I can skeptical vocation as ethical issue in fact to grow up yeah you mean you think they can't change your mind I think sometimes that smile that's the lone definite lon then we think they were there yeah but a set of values if you can help them to say that there is another perspective does I've got again district means they might defend SMS well you don't have to convince to help I guess it was on me if I number this is again winter doing academic ethics we're now trying to convince me home then we are aiming at understanding not agree yeah it is another morning 32 reason complete but I could be two chicks in the classroom to satisfy the SS ESP are things like spoken like a true practical business professor that's what I like the whole point that the emotivism is to reject the notion sisters I know so you can't use that the consistency argument the case when our connector special i'm not going to cash out right now right now i'm back in the hand shower with what is a viable ethical system or knife because again this is a very practical workshop okay we can go get into the stuff like that later really very strong Christian values oh yeah and then I always wonder how to play with that well we've talked about this in other workshops having Christian values again that's sort of an equivocal term by itself because that can be something very different to a hardcore phone Nautilus that will do a Catholic natural log theorists than a will to you know and Vangelis adopting ethics of log that came out so so yeah you can have students coming in with with varies from place actually I'm going to address it later on so when relativism here's here's one example relativism rears its head and people start saying things like well everybody sees it different different ways who's to judge or this may be true for you but it's not true for me or any of these sort of things it's all just opinions have been identified say whoa kid that's an actual philosophical position we call that relativism and a lot of people have a spouse that at different times and here's what we're going to say about and this is sort of a pragmatic attitude towards it without trying to attain been rock you know absolute agreement acknowledge the relative correctness of acquisition every every standpoint that somebody takes is going to have something to say forever all's they would have taken it the first place right nobody embraces pure error for its own sake so things do appear different to different people and some Goods and values our situation some of them are relative to things does that mean that everything then is up for grabs no that that's a that's a unjustified inference and the point of this is not to bring them around your way of thinking or it's just to teach them that they're that maybe this read the way they feel about this and that's an ego as point of view or this is relative it's not to bring them on your way of thinking it's just to educate them on the various theoretical well two there's two things so you're right you're showing them that look if you're going to take this position who's going to hold you back but maybe not okay okay the whole back problem it seems a thing that and then I could be wrong and I take a lot at the course because I'm a la Rionda CPA and so it's a big part of our ethics I'm a big power our courses but sees me that what we look what I try to do the students is try to if if there are some things they are thinking about doing a not doing what is the impact of those and I want them to think about the impact others a rock concert yeah the consequences and that's the key thing I thought you know this would wait after there was like whoa this is way over my hair probably I'm gonna tell you what are you doing that but but I'm trying to get the students to think about the consequences that I was perfectly compatible what I've been saying if as their relative lists they're not going to think about the consequences because they're going to say the consequences will be different from everybody's different point of view you're actually making this on now they're different perspective you're actually make well then you could say relativism is incompatible as a business objective and you still do the same thing which is saying look for the purposes of the class you don't want to you don't want to be a relativist and it does hold them back now we haven't actually talked about kinds of questions sorry so I'm not saying that would be something holding them back relativism and all sort of a completely naive egoism those would hold you back from being able to get to where you're talking about what you're saying and in terms of them being able to see a different perspective if they address like some of the accounting concerns with this perspective then the end result might be jail time you know what I'm saying so as I if they learn to look at it from different perspectives and then going on just like what's the outcome of using that perspective then that's pretty house levels yeah that's many progress yeah I think the way the very core of a taste not only the classroom it anywhere is that somebody is injured gets hurt through analytical action by anyone I think that is what we have the stress because hurting others is not yeah this again this workshop is not about what the single theory is that we should be teaching anything like that this workshop is just about common obstacles that come up in teaching ethics and then how to address them yeah but we have the first problem is to let them realize that it is important below 80 gigs in the class sure unless we get convince them first of the importance how could we even get them interested oh I don't I don't actually do it then what I generally do politics in the past is come and say okay we're gonna start talking about right and wrong and all that sort of stuff and you don't have to agree about this but you do have to understand because that's what I'm going to grade you and that sets the seeds for actually starting to study these sorts of things they're studying if not because they you know love goodness and truth in itself or something like that or even education in itself they're studying it because they're going to get graded by me and then if along the way they happen to actually catch sight of that and get drawn into it then I'm very happy but even if they don't I'm you know still fairly content some of them and they will make some progress and that's that you know we I think again you don't want to let the best be the enemy of the good you don't have to have everything completely figured out have some sort of systemic thing in mind to start teaching others yeah also teaching it in a way that we tell our students what to do no that's a little fiction for this rate it's a description of this is the way things are aware of it well known whatever same if you don't want to be loved it you might end up like middle oh sure anything I think part of what is getting lost in here is that there's more than one ethical theory and one of the things you want your students to be able to do is to learn more than one ethical theory when you're calling the way things are and to be able to apply the great consistently so you know before you actually decide which one of these is right first get down what are the things out and then we can start going on well is this is this perspective more fundamental than this perspective but first our students have to actually learn what is utilitarianism how would you apply it how does it differ than what you know from just plain heroism almost sort of things what I virtue about this after they do that that make it done it can start doing decided which one is going to be the best one and one more questions so mean the presentation going at is this from the context that this will be a full semester course or just like some kind of we will put it within our other courses for example if it's– taxations or business law center I'm truck because all these will be very difficult for me to top of them in detail about all the stuff due tomorrow there will be in any course another course that's what substance is more important than yeah I'm not expecting you to do that this could be applied to a whole course this could be applied to just parts of it like I said at the beginning I'm giving you a certain toolbox and so if you take one to a lot of it that's good if you take the whole toolbox that's good too there's no necessity to try to incorporate all this I'm going to talk about course design towards the end I think if you manage my grades I think we should feed the purpose of teaching all it's a cousin that resulted as good a would be and then they don't see any equalizer than that we I mean do and tactical you know yeah again when we're doing act when we're doing ethics from an academic perspective we're not not primarily focusing on getting agreement from the students or getting eliciting a certain kind of behavior we're interested fundamentally in denim demonstrating understanding as a sort of first step and that's usually most that's usually all most of my students achievement where they go from there that is another set of questions Eliza's and rock right in analysis great point for the oh how do you great how are you great how you great somebody I'm you know is there a rack doesn't we're going there is whatever yeah there's an easy answer that you set up rubrics if you go out if you got any ethics in business education project website you'll see a rubric with your actions using here at FSU for the evaluation of students currently and what it asks them to do is to demonstrate understand again doesn't it doesn't require them to say I am in pretty colors yeah they don't have to they don't want to say what is in fact right or long they have to say from this perspective this is right and here's why that's easily measurable and you're not rating people on what they believe in that case your grading them on what they can actually demonstrate they can do they may not believe any of them you know somebody could be you know somebody could be completely inconsistent traveled several of these them all at the same time or somebody could say I don't believe in any of this sort of stuff but i can actually at least talk about why a utilitarian garment this why accounts of conscious no problems right like if you were going to take the issue of abortion which of course is a huge yeah you know controversial issue but you put it down on paper and say the issue is abortion how would a universalist look at it an ego is consequential if this thing's logic but they have to have that understanding not that they're going to say I'm you know pro or con understand of all those I mean you look good well that's all we're supposed to be teaching what we'll do they have done has understand well in a business sense if they don't have that and they end up working in an abortion clinic than anyone that doesn't think like them how do you give them the same level service something it really does precisely we're going with that though you listens where business school we take pragmatic and this is theoretical and I totally am I born here I'm totally on board with that won't struggle at that all the time but the point is if you think you're supposed to be right you will find that they do address several different ethical perspectives management 311 its whole chapter on yes we're just trying to get them to appreciate them I think yes I think I think that's to keep that depreciation that they are all the different points of view and once again and not the impact of how they think or a house what the impact is of what they might do on it stuck here yeah that's that's what that's it yeah that's it not sure yeah okay so you're going to going back to some of the challenges in that case of teaching analyze this problem of multiple perspectives right we've already seen this a lot of people want to focus just in a how do I find the one perspective that's going to deal with everything your students are more likely to do when they're asked to look at things from multiple perspectives so often times students have strong emotional responses we get frustrated anxious it's not something that they've been asked to do a lot in their other classes they're often when you put here used to looking for the right answer just get it done and solve the problem and what we want them to be looking for is the most right hands are given the circumstances they want them to be paying attention to the situation I'm not just trying to resolve immediately you're also not used to providing explanations and justifications this is something very important in order to behave ethically consistently or in order to make good ethical decisions you want to also be able to sit why you're doing you ought to be able to provide songs from the granting of justification and our students just our get used to do it now they're also not that accustomed to looking at situations and then sort of analyzing them finding all the different relevant features place okay I just grew that I think a business students a lil bit different and you guys know maybe I mom but but in most of business courses that I teach and everyone's in my department we do make them go through this grouper kind of formula where where they have two allies situation detail and then give the opinion based on you know what everyone is legal or accounting of port-au-prince avail and so they do have that they do have that gut in format there in that industry that's okay though this won't be applicable you can just we can move on and be a lot of 18 I mean I conversing al-qaeda offense is not if you wouldn't believe the stuff they come up see I actually have some other I actually have some of your business students in my critical thinking classes and they don't do any better in general the other student yeah well because they are prominent for system is right right no many of them are many of them are seniors and juniors who didn't yeah it quickly not not critical thinking yeah actually a lot of them hundred off until yeah I think I like that guy yeah what I asked them to do in that in that class quite often is in fact provide explanations and justifications for things and i find that seniors in zhengzhou do better than freshman I don't find that business students on the whole do better than other other students so you know this could be a matter of samples or something like that let's let's go on so what are some of the best practices that you can this is some of the stuff we've touched them already stress to the students that in their class they don't have to agree with the perspectives it's not a matter of them you know agreeing with utilitarianism or deontology or vision optics it's a matter of them understanding and being able to apply it something that's much more limited in scope I would also say something that's very helpful is when you've got some sort of conflict of perspective to divide up the work have your students you know this group over here works on this perspective this group over here works on this perspective this group over here works on this perspective that's that's more manageable also provide that with some models for looking at these things from my own perspective there's a lot of cases out there and you can find analyses of them from a utilitarian perspective from it's a really no rational self-interest perspective from a dance logical perspective you can make up your own confidence some of these perspectives are actually complement complementary to each other on comes some some issues and it's worth pointing that out to them that there are cases where they will agree where they can they can strengthen each other and then be honest about conflicts between perspectives that doesn't that doesn't mean that the perspectives are all wrong or that you know there's something a huge problem it just means that the virtue ethicists is not going to agree with utilitarian on every single issue and it's good to know which which side the ball down there are certain student questions that come up at least in my experience over and over again yeah they can provoke a certain kind of crisis if you're not ready for them they can take the class on the track or they can make you feel less confident about your own teaching we don't want to happen and when a professor sort of locks up the students are learning something they're learning that there aren't good answers or that ethics is really something that we don't talk about business it's something left and philosophers the stances that they come to come in with it reinforces and say well you know if this person doesn't know any better than I do why should i why should i be open to thinking things differently they also provide learning opportunities so if you've actually thought out response to some of these these questions this is part of the toolbox then you can teach other lessons to me you can teach them that ethics is something worth taking seriously and studying do can teach them that you don't have to be at professional athis is to think about it and sort of competent thoughtful way which is a very important lesson because you know it was only professional ethicists who were that they were ethical we'd really be in a lot of trouble fun after there are some professional ethicists who are you can also open up the issues or the concepts the more that you work with these things the more sides you find in them I've been reading Plato for 20 years ago and there are dialogues that I still keep going back and find more things in there why because these are rich concepts they're well worth exploring and we want to model that for our students so here's six challenging questions you guys might have come up with some other ones I'm going to look these surveys afterwards and I'm really curious to find out which questions you have been asked or which questions you're worried that a student might have these are the ones that I've seen ghosts the first one is but as legal isn't it that that's supposed to end yes Oh best practice is the new role Sam you roll hugging model ethical behavior yes how can you come late for example if you say that okay i'm going to give you back the exam one day and we don't do it yet if you say that we come on time and then monday yeah boy yeah that there are such a definite around the business skill and they say unethical behavior what does that mean little decision yeah we can't say they do the same so therefore it's okay for us to be exact yeah right modeling that or twerk think about when a student asks a question you can do a lot of different things you can you can say well that's a good question let me know Drash technology nothing don't know if you don't know yes that's here come on Jill and maybe I'll call us that we really do it yeah I think you're in there from I think you're exactly right yeah those those of those are important things also you know students sometimes behave disrespectfully towards each other in the classroom I try to actually build it's my syllabus provisions to make sure that they understand that if a student asks another question you know don't really rise or that's stupid or things like that because that you know that creates a bad environment for inquiry okay so these are these are the six questions that it's legal isn't it you've all I think run across that one off but what people really do is this so you know that that puts an end of the topic or you know this goes back to some of the questions about what if a student really has a strong value system this is so black and white who doesn't see we have some students who come in and are they're absolutely convinced that things are this way and anybody who doesn't see it that way is irrational what's the opposite of that well isn't this just a great area you know nobody really knows this sort of thing and then some students get really worried when they get these case studies and they said yeah but you know what if what if she didn't know that her reactions what if he had two children at home or you know they started imagining all these these other possibilities and then there's the other one why are you just assuming that that we've already accepted a particular ethical theory students won't express something though right they'll say yeah but aren't you already just saying you know that we're all utilitarians at bottom yeah and so here's how here's Pierce iment some suggestions for how to deal with this it's legalism okay what is this a chance to do it's a chance to start talking about the diff between legality and morality the fact that they're not exactly the same thing that's an opportunity you can say look there's a basic mistake out there in identifying the legal with the ethical and these are a lot of topics that you could possibly reflect are there just an unjust laws yeah there are some laws that are on the books that are that are not just in some places right then ask the students what would actually make the laws just or unjust there must be some criteria this besides just the fact that their laws you can also ask them what's the basic purpose of Wong why do we have laws what's what's the function well is it good to obey laws you know they should come up with the answer yes at home right we need something beyond laws and actually this is a good opportunity I've used this in my classes because I remarkably found that our students don't read a letter from a Birmingham jail like we did well at least I didn't I was in high school required reading Martin Luther King actually addresses all these these issues in there he spells out what is it just look just laws and one which conduces to them to the development of personality the one that sir process it as an unmissable you could actually talk about other figures with respect to this this is a great opportunity to to bring in a lot of things for your students what people really do is you can substitute anything you want here's a great opportunity to talk about the difference between fact and value between is and all just because people do act a certain how does that make it right it doesn't you need some sort of justification for why then again you want to acknowledge the partial truth of it if you do have to be realistic about human beings are harmless human beings acting at the one hundred percent of the time we don't live up to our own ethical standards sometimes the other model can be pretty important right but that doesn't mean that everything somebody goes away and we don't have any ethical standards all together this is again that she asked for your students to reflect on these these sort of dishes ask your students are other people who walk against those trends who actually do what's ethically right why do you think what yeah quick question for finding people whatever it is like in the banking crisis in the mortgage crisis if you even explore the ethical side of things Nina said thanksgiving mortgages to people it's kind of risky I mean interactive do you talk about ethical issues in baby this versatile forum at this is hardly people feel bad but I don't use the banking classes teach corporate finance investments in principles of finance and you have an ethical learning outcomes in my speech on that ferry by a little bit mostly just a couple of cases for instance related to stretching accounts receivable or legal issues yeah the line between whether you know this example something is legal but consider universally unethical but it's most common practice and so I get I get that question on pretty frequently you know but sometimes will actually form in which I got it recently was um there's a lot of it's a fifth case a lot of difference between the illegal and unethical the clear implication being that that's a no but anyway sorry I can as far as the financial crisis design equation you know a specific question about it than I can drive that came up before we uh talk about brandy one of the things about brand of services is the perception of what was behind that and this was last spring you know John houses your goodness and living dollars as the outgoing president BB&T and he spent 29 hours he talking about the ten principles the philosophy of business the governing philosophy knock knock mission statement objectives and he quoted Aristotle sometimes yeah but he said reason we didn't have problems with tracking crisis because we never got into that we've had a confession written to us he said the reason was because we looked at this from those principles and we said that Justin will have a win-win situation for us and our clients and so we got reason that is we did you a whole line of business event because of their ethical principles it's a long track but I yeah that's a good thing that it was a good example examples are all in the charm called their philosophy business changes required training of every single employee Sybil what was hitching to I thought he basically comments about I mean he had a captive audience because can have a million dollars that's right and he and he embedded his philosophy on shortening with that captive audience audience of back in the bay dollars and so from an ethical standpoint you know you know you know there are issues there to how he did that and you know in the those issues come up and back in everything else 20 in a kind of industry when for example if you got our account a CPA this won't be writing your books and he goes and play golf will heal every every minute right there are issues about that well there's consequences and that's a part of ethics and everything together how about some comfortable sorry catalyst there wasn't any of these you're going to jail or something to sneak in on something that is I mean here is where the good has turned out to be a very strong business drive yeah sure yes you know big big E's thinking like well you know we don't want carp money because we didn't were not in trouble yeah but people who are competing for careers and job artists and employees they can take a look at a BB&T say well you know that looks like a possible we're going to bank might be less I'm going to work

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